51 Commodore 8

[Deleted User]

Well as usual everything is being a big pain in the ass. Can anybody tell me why the front main bearing cap will not come off. I used the correct puller and it came down about one eighth of an inch and then the screws broke that you put on the puller which are oil pan screws and of course it broke part of the main bearing cap off right in the middle of the screws. I think this can be repaired at a machine shop but I have beat and banged all night and rigged up ways to try and pry the cap off and it will not budge. Is there something else holding it on? I have worked on a lot of cars in my day but this one has been one of the most aggravating cars I ever worked on. Nothing has been easy or gone smooth. If anybody can help me out here I would really appreciate it.

Park_W

Buck, sorry you're having a bit of a challenge with that front main. Sounds line the timing cover doesn't want to turn loose of that bearing cap. Did you remove the screws at the bottom of the timing cover, which thread into the front cap? If so, maybe someone put an "industrial strength" gasket sealer on the timing cover gasket. You may have to loosen a few more of the lower timing cover screws and use a putty knife or gasket scraper to separate the timing cover from the bearing cap (usually this isn't necessary).

[Deleted User]

Hi Park W. Yes I did remove the screws in the timing cover. I even took out the bottom 4. I also loosened the bottom two screws in the front cover. The bearing, what little it has come down looks even so it don't look like it is in a bine with one side coming down further than the other. I can't figure it out. Thanks

Jon B

Bmcgill, this is just a long shot, but where are you located? Possibly, a good-hearted (and hopefully technically-oriented) Hudsonite in your area might be willing to stop by and take a look at the bearing and offer some suggestions. Many of us aren't engine experts, but someone who is, might see your message and be willing to lend a hand.



Or, you might happen to live not far from some sort of Hudson activity this spring, where you might encounter someone willing to offer advice, or a hand.



You just never know....

[Deleted User]

I live only about 35 miles from Doug Waldrick. He restores and does mechanical work on Hudsons for a living. I don't know if he would come down or not. I have never seen anything like this. I have worked on a lot of engines myself, I don't know that I would call myself an expert but this is unreal. I can even move the main bearing cap back and forth by prying against it with a screwdriver and the front engine cover and see it move and pry against the crankshaft on the other side and see it move back but it will not come down but about an eighth of an inch. Now that the screws have broke the edge of the bearing cap of right at the center of the screw that you use to bolt the puller on, I can't use the puller but it looks like if it is that loose it should come off by prying down on it with a crow bar which is what I have been doing and hammering like hell on it. I've got the four bottom bolts out of the timing gear cover so what in the world could be holding it? I am at my whits end with this one.

Jon B

Brncgill, this is completely a shot in the dark on my part, because I've never removed a Hudson crankshaft (or any crankshaft for that matter). But....



Are you using a shop manual? You may then have an illustration of the front and rear caps in a state of removal, as does the manual for my 1937 six-cylinder. The front and rear caps are not "out in the open" like the rest, they are recessed into the block itself. Three sides (of the thickness of the cap) actually touch the block. Along the two vertical seams (between the block and the cap) there is one horizontal hole drilled, in such a way that half of it is in the block and half is in the cap. A cotton packing is stuffed into this hole (imagine a thin cord, maybe 1/16" to 1/8" in diameter).



Once these two packings are inserted, they act like a "lock pin" which prevents the cap from being removed. But, being made of cotton, they can supposedly be be sheared off by force. That is why you need the puller.



In fact, the 1937 shop manual says, "....sufficient force must be applied [with the puller] to shear the packing in the horizontal groove."



That could be your problem.



I do NOT know if your engine has the same set-up. But it is an eight cylinder, meaning it is of a basically 1930 design. So it is constructed more like my 1937 six cylinder, than like the 1951 sixes.



So, the resistance you are encountering, is provided by two cotton "cords". If that seems to be the cause of your woes, here is an idea:



Take a tiny drill bit and (with an electric drill or with your fingers) insert it into the hole that you see, right near the top of the cap (where it meets the block). Twist it around, and "drill out" the packing. Or maybe you can snag it, and yank it out. When you attempt this, of course, you should bottom the cap out, pushing upwards on it, to relieve any tension on the packing.



Anyway, it's a thought!

[Deleted User]

Thanks for your advice again Jon. Believe it or not I pulled the packing out of one side and it appeared to be long enough to be all of it but it might not be. The packing is still in one side. This is something else too, I can take a screw driver and pry against the front of the bearing cap and the front engine cover and the bearing being down about one eighth of an inch will move back and forth without much effort at all. It blows my mind that it can be that loose but will not come down. I even used a wrecking bar and got it in a position to where I could pry down on the bearing cap and I had a hydrolic jack on the end of the bar and it bent the wrecking bar and still did'nt come down. I think I will try a drill bit like you talked about and see what happens. If that don't work I am about ready to junk the damn thing. I have'nt got the money or I would just take it to Doug Waldrick and say fix it. Thanks again.

[Deleted User]

I forgot to tell you that yes I am using a manual and all it says is that the front and rear main caps can be easily removed with a puller. Ha

SuperDave

If someone put a wood seal in there, it will be a devil to shear. The drill techniqe as suggested above should work.

[Deleted User]

Just a thought. I'd take a magnifying glass and some good light and see if that main bearing cap has a crack in it . If it does that means it spread a few thousands which would make it impossible to remove. Jim

Uncle Josh

In addition to what Jon mentioned about the packings, there are 2 more holes that run from the front of the cap to the rear that should have packing in them.



I just tried to pull the front cap of a 40 eight today and bent my puller. Suspecting something was wrong, I investigated and found that someone had substituted lead for thread in these holes. After driving out the 2 lead plugs, the cap came out easily.

[Deleted User]

Uncle Josh. I went up and talked to Doug Waldrick today and looked at a 8 cylinder block he had and we come to the conclusion that, that is why my main cap won't come off cause someone has used something besides regular cotton packing in those two upper packings and that is why it won't come loose. I have decided to pull the engine out anyway cause there is still a lot of sludge in the block and if I don't get it cleaned out good and some of that sludge comes loose and blocks one of the oil holes that go to the mains, I'll have the same problem later on. Besides that who knows what kind of shape the cam bearings are in.

Uncle Josh

I hear ya. It's always tempting not to go the next step but every time I have I'm glad I did.



Besides it having 3/8 to 1/2 inch of parrafin oil/wax in the valve gallery and the pan, and brown sludge behind the water jacket, the thrust washer behind the front of the cam was split and would have come out, the end bearings of the cam were loose and trying to get out, and when I got to the mains, #2,3 and 4 cap inserts were devoid of most of the babbit.



Cooper carries cam bearings for the 41-52 so you're OK. If the mains are bad, you'll have to get lucky like me or have them re-babbited.



Mine being a 40, the cam bearings are thicker, but I have a toolmaker buddy who runs a shop 1/8 of a mile up the road so he can make me the cam bearings.



Jimmy Cook always says to 'look in your own back yard', so I remembered a box of engine bearings Bateholt gave me when I bought the coupe from him. He rebuilt engines for a Hudson dealership, put new bearings in and saved the old ones. The box has bailed me out of 2 splasher 6s already and...Yup, I found a complete set of real nice used mains for the eight. Then my friend Alan, found a couple of NOS for #5 in his stash, but I'd rather go with a complete set that probably came from the same engine.



As Doc Hudson says, "We're back in business".