1951 Hornet Sedan Parting Out

[Deleted User]

Soon will bring 51 Hornet to scrapyard, before doing so any member interested in single barrel 308 Hornet engine, transmission single range, rearend, wheels etc. Also have front/rear chrome bumpers, entire grill and except for glove compartment dash board core's respectively. Also left/right fenders, trunk lid and hood in decent condition. I have two gas tanks (I am going to use fuel cell) with sending units, one from my '52 Hornet is already sand blasted and taken to radiator shop had boiled out also in primer, other was removed from '51 Hornet parts car. Note all parts in question are from parts car that were parked in desert for years and I don't have any history or back-up stories about vehicle. All located in Mesquite, Nevada area, about 80 miles north of Las Vegas, going to help builder Thursady and will take some updated progress pictures.



I'm in the market for Ford 9" rear-end, have contacted Quick-Performance-Racing and received following below quote's:



"Ray-

All or our housings are made to order with new 3" DOM tubing. This allows us to build them to any specified length for no additional charge. Here is what we can do for you:



$650 - 9" Housing/Axle Package (Custom)

- Custom Length (Please Specify)

- Moser Axles, Axle Bearings, Wheel Studs, & Retainers

- 31 Spline, Choice of Bolt Pattern, 1/2" Studs

$820 - Center Section (Assembled)

- New 31 Spline Trac-Lock Posi

- New Motive Performance Gears (Choice of Ratio)

- New Timken USA Bearings

$369 - 11" Disc Brake Kit w/ Parking Brake ($239 w/out Parking Brake)

---

$150 - SHIPPING to 89144

---

$1989 - TOTAL



This would be a complete 31 spline setup with your choice of gear ratio, we have the 3.00, 3.25, and 3.50 gear ratios in your specified range.. We use new Moser axles (not factory re-splines). We also use new trac-lock posi units, not torque-lock units (modified open carrier) like others have been selling on eBay.



Has any member purchased and used this company or can offer alternative recommendations?



Thanks,



Ray



P.S. Last November at Laughlin meet, I purchased a great pair of porkchops from Bill Albright, however I had real good passenger side porkchop plated at my friends shop at www.americanpolishingplating.com which came out great and would like to buy in platable condition driver's side porkchop.

Unknown

Ray

do you have any od the 51 passinger door and front fender stainless from the pork chop to the rocket? i need the short front fender piece and the front door one so i can repair the one for my coupe.

mike

[Deleted User]

unique1963 wrote:

Ray

do you have any od the 51 passinger door and front fender stainless from the pork chop to the rocket? i need the short front fender piece and the front door one so i can repair the one for my coupe.

mike

Mike,



Please note, car is four door sedan, when I go to car this Thursday, I'll check and if I have will take pictures and email them to you, what is your personal email address?



Ray

Unknown

i know its a 4 door .. 2 door parts are so hard to find and i have most of mine .. just actually need part of the door trim and fender stainless .. personal email address is HETmikey67901@yahoo.com minus the HET

mike



Please note, car is four door sedan, when I go to car this Thursday, I'll check and if I have will take pictures and email them to you, what is your personal email address?



Ray[/QUOTE]

Ol racer

Unless your going all out supercharged Race Car why not save some money and get a used Ford 9" that has strong 31 spline axles and large W/Brgs. Many of the XL Fords have the traction loc Units which are pretty strong. Fords have different widths but Bronco's are the narrowest housings. I have found ratios from 2.76 up to 3.70 in the Salvage Yard.

Local machine shop can narrow housing and re-spline the axles. Ive done this a lot as well as installing Moser Axles on an 800 HP Car...

[Deleted User]

Hi Ol racer (great name)



Going on 71 years old I'm not building car for racing, just want to enjoy a great looking reliable restored car from years gone by and thanks for recommendation, I intend to visit couple salvage yards this weekend. Did a little research yesterday and found following helpful link:



http://www.dfwmotorsport.com:80/Fairlane/9inchrearends.htm



on Google. As progress continues I'll keep you updated...



Thanks,



Ray

Ol racer

Ray,

I am not too far behind you in age and seriously suggest finding a 9' in a Yard to fit, using your research chart then you wont have to narrow the housing. Perhaps dont even be concerned on finding a Posi to simplyfy. Keep in mind the later model ('89 up) Ford 8.8 Rear (that replaced the 9") is a good Unit too. Only draw back is the intregal housing makes gear changing more difficult)..The newer the rear the better chance you can put it right under the car with perhaps only new w/cyls & lining. For cruising stay between 2.50- 3.00 but if using an Overdrive Auto go around 3.50...



Actually if I were doing another Cruiser (if not using a Hornet motor) I would buy a low mile Late Model Motor & Trans with all the accessories (inc Computer & wiring harness) then slide it in weld the mounts, make a 1 pc driveshaft, and bend exhaust to fit onto manifolds. Crate motors are nice but you need to obtain a lot of small parts & pcs before ready to run...

Good Luck

[Deleted User]

Good Evening Ol Racer (I really like that name)



Thanks again for advise and concern,I found a 8.8 rear in Vegas for $160.- http://lasvegas.craigslist.org:80/pts/660184928.html howeve like you mentioned 9" inch is the way to go and I'm sure I'll locate one. Tomorrow I am going to help builder; going to install quarter panels, fenders to make door adjustments, also grill and front bumper to adjust proper fit.



Original planned and purchased a Chevy Camero and was going to do exactly like you recommended, however first builder talked me into this nightmare project, and I purchased 350 Chevy engine, 700R4 transmission and fatmansfab front suspension and now have too much invested and already sold solid Camero. I now feel confident with new builder's intergity, workmanship and honesty and will go forward with everything I have.



Thanks for your best wishes, more later this weekend,



Ray

Ol racer

Ray,

Sounds like you will have a nice Cruiser when finished and well worth all the barriers you have encountered building...I didnt mean to diminish using Ford's newer design 8.8 Rear for a cruiser. 8.8's actually are quite strong and in Ford 1/2 ton trucks.. (The 8.8 drawbacks revolve more around using it for Racing because it has 'C Clips' that retain the axles (Not permitted racing) and its more difficult to change ratios quickly with its Intregal housing).



Whatever rear you use ensure its the same bolt circle as your front Hubs so wont have to carry two spares...

[Deleted User]

Ol racer wrote:

Ray,

Sounds like you will have a nice Cruiser when finished and well worth all the barriers you have encountered building...I didnt mean to diminish using Ford's newer design 8.8 Rear for a cruiser. 8.8's actually are quite strong and in Ford 1/2 ton trucks.. (The 8.8 drawbacks revolve more around using it for Racing because it has 'C Clips' that retain the axles (Not permitted racing) and its more difficult to change ratios quickly with its Intregal housing).



Whatever rear you use ensure its the same bolt circle as your front Hubs so wont have to carry two spares...

Good Evening Ol Racer,



Thanks for reply especially last line of your message.



Thanks for reply especially last line of your message.



Spent the better part of day working (I know I’ll feel it tomorrow) with a great young conscience perfectionists builder, (if I meet before other so called builder I’d have ca restored already) I did as much I know how and can’t take any credit for Allen’s skill mechanical workmanship. While working Allen patiently explained procedure. I’ve attached a few/some pictures of what he sent a couple of nights ago of accomplishments thus far being the notch frame for radiator support, welding of engine mounts , transmission cross member and the fact it will be easy if need be to remove transmission at a later date. Today, we reinstalled *quarter panels, fenders and hood, after several attempts I am so pleased to see how well doors, (lot work required on post) quarter panels, fenders and hood line up. Unfortunately my camera chip was fill and I didn’t take any pictures but will next week.



*Only cosmetic however do you have any experience with inserting welt between quarter panel and body, I’ve read many us different 3M product, but I attended a car show and saw where gentleman installed a stainless steel welt on his restoration (not a Hudson) and it looked good…The four door sedan I purchased/ Black Beauty from Rudy Bennett had black welt. At a later date I am also going to have wheel wells, radiator support, and some other under the hood parts powder coated. This weekend I am going to wrecking yards to look for Ford 9” rear end and overall I feel in short time a great deal of progress has been realized...More at a later date!!!



Have a good night,



Ray

Ol racer

Ray,

Your Project looks really great and further along than I imagined. I assume the fabricator 'overlapped' the new sub frame onto (or into) the Hudson frame.



If you like the real Stainless 'Fender welting' the only place I found it was at Bob Drake Restoration.. comes 6 or 8 ft lengths by UPS.....

www.bobdrake@bobdrake.com I bought some for my '47 Hudson St Rod Trk and looks real good...

Unknown

If you are looking for a cruising rearend, try dana 44 - 2.72 gear package, in the Hudson rearend, a gentleman up here in Canada used that setup and it works great, may save alittle in the pocket book, they are suppose to fit right in



Peter

[Deleted User]

Ol racer wrote:

Ray,

Your Project looks really great and further along than I imagined. I assume the fabricator 'overlapped' the new sub frame onto (or into) the Hudson frame.



If you like the real Stainless 'Fender welting' the only place I found it was at Bob Drake Restoration.. comes 6 or 8 ft lengths by UPS.....

www.bobdrake@bobdrake.com I bought some for my '47 Hudson St Rod Trk and looks real good...

Hi Ol Racer,



Yes, Allen (fabricator-builder) did 'overlap' the new sub frame onto (or into) the Hudson frame; think I have some pictures that I’ll attach, pity my camera chip was full otherwise I would have taken some nice pictures of the car re-assembled, with almost “spot on” fitting..



May have drive shaft/differential pinion problem which isn’t centered having slight offset; with the engine and trans centered in the frame rails the output of the trans dose not match the center line of the rear-end.

Allen was looking at all Hudson Forums and members who already made this change reported and he agrees the clearance for 3" drive shaft will hit the tunnel. Even the pinion center of the stock rear-end is off centered causing driveshaft not being straight. Hopefully with Ford 9” this will not represent problem because of centered pinion and should make a perfect fit?. The problem is going to be the main cross members and the floor tunnel. As we aren’t at this point yet, it’s too early to determine if and if so, how much modification clearance will be required; until we secure and get 9” Ford rear-end mounted in the car we’ll proceed and go from there. In the FORUM members comments that rear clears with the original 2" drive shaft? If tunnel requires modification, I’m also concerned and sure before re-upholstery we’ll have to modify/change rear seat frame to fit over center hump in floor?



As per builder following is the game plan, after installation of rear-end make and mark everything (doors) that fits satisfactorily, then remove everything off the car and put frame using rotisserie and do some additional blasting and frame repair necessary…It’s going to be a long hot summer, but Allen feels we’ll be road worthy before the end of this year, he's a real fine young conscientious builder and a pleasure to work with him. I knew I was going to be sore today, but I enjoyed every minute of working on car yesterday and look forward to doing so again next week.



Thanks for stainless steel welt tip, following is direct link http://store.bobdrake.com/19stainsteel3.html I’ll ask Allen to measure quarter panels and arrange to order one or if needed two rolls. When you installed on your ’47 Hudson Street Rod Truck, do you also use any type of 3M product?



Thanks again,



Ray

[Deleted User]

29 Essex rs wrote:

If you are looking for a cruising rearend, try dana 44 - 2.72 gear package, in the Hudson rearend, a gentleman up here in Canada used that setup and it works great, may save alittle in the pocket book, they are suppose to fit right in



Peter

Hi Peter,



Thanks for input, however when I frist started this project 18 months ago, I foolishly almost gave away the entire Hornet drive train, then I purchased solid Chevy Camero and was going to install, but as you can see I am going with completely different set-up...However information could benefit other members and is useful.

Thanks again,



Ray

Ol racer

Ray,



I think some of the 9" housings are offset too. I have used them as is and I have shortened one side then resplined the axle at a local Machine Shop. It was not expensive.



If at all possible use a 1 pc driveshaft even if you need to trim out the bottom of the tunnel. It can be reinforced lower and also serve as a 'safety loop'



I didnt use any 3M on my stainless welting because I didnt think of it. Its a good idea going forward though..

[Deleted User]

Ol racer wrote:

Ray,



I think some of the 9" housings are offset too. I have used them as is and I have shortened one side then resplined the axle at a local Machine Shop. It was not expensive.



If at all possible use a 1 pc driveshaft even if you need to trim out the bottom of the tunnel. It can be reinforced lower and also serve as a 'safety loop'



I didnt use any 3M on my stainless welting because I didnt think of it. Its a good idea going forward though..

Thanks Ol Racer,



I'll pass information onto Allen.



Ray

Unknown

the explorer (97) is 59.5 inches flange to flange--comes with disc brakes too--i got pickapart one for about $100 and it is a 3.5 posi too----another to look at is a 96 grand cherokee disc rear at about 60 inches----mopar A body 8 3/4 axles (hard to find) are at 60 inches also---if you can find a late seventys lincoln versailles they sport a 9 inch with disc brakes----bob

[Deleted User]

savoy64 wrote:

the explorer (97) is 59.5 inches flange to flange--comes with disc brakes too--i got pickapart one for about $100 and it is a 3.5 posi too----another to look at is a 96 grand cherokee disc rear at about 60 inches----mopar A body 8 3/4 axles (hard to find) are at 60 inches also---if you can find a late seventys lincoln versailles they sport a 9 inch with disc brakes----bob

Thanks Bob,



Plan to visit picapart yard today...Emailed owner of 1977 Versailies located in Utah, haven't received reply yet, obviously I'd rather locate 9" rear-end in Vegas which will save time and transportation.



Ray

rambos_ride

Ray,

I'm using a 2pc driveshaft from a 75 Chev truck - using the original carrier bearing side struts I have no clearance problems other than shaving 1/8 of the outter radius of the GM carrier housing on the top near the floor pan.

rambos_ride

[Deleted User]

Dan



As always; appreciate your input...



Thanks

rambos_ride

Ray wrote:

Dan

As always; appreciate your input...

Thanks

NP Ray - just wanted you to know a 3" driveshaft will fit - if the motor and transmission are positioned correctly height-wise.

Unknown

Hey Ray, do you still have parts available from the '51? The thread seems to have travelled off to fabrication ideas. Not that I'm complaining. I need the rocker panels from a sedan, a pair of hood hinges for my '52 Hornet sedan. I also need a right front fender for my '51 C8 coupe. Hope to hear from you.

[Deleted User]

Hi Tristandaz,



Because of cartaract left eye surgery, I haven't been on FORUM much...I gave the parts car away, however in touch with owner and will relax your requests, however I wouldn't expect to har from him last next week when he returns from Norhtern Califonia swap meet. To answer your question, car does have hood hinges and decent front fenders, I don't believe rocker panels are any good, I ask Allen to email you pictures directly and discuss in more detail next week, in fact I will copy him both your incoming and my replied emails. Please send your email address?



Ray

Unknown

email address: renoheldentenor@msn.com

Thanks.



Larry