front wheel alignment

bartibog1

this may sound stupid but are there differant settings when aligning front end using radials on a stepdown



steve

Park_W

A front-end guy will have to explain why, but from recommendations I've seen, the only difference is that the toe-in is recommended at 1/2 to zero vs. the factory-listed setting.

[Deleted User]

Nothing stupid about that question.

SuperDave

I experimented with various setting after switching to radials on my step down. The best setting were as close to absolute zero toe as I could get. Otherwise it had a SLIGHT tendancy to wander.

Hudson Dave is a front end guru, perhaps He'll step in and expound on the subject.

ratlee2

Steve,

Great question, and one I was going to ask. With my 65 mustang, many people suggested increasing positive caster and adding a little bit more negative camber to the car. They said that negative camber would increase tire contact with the road in corning and the positive caster would improve centering of the wheel after turning. It made a big difference in handling. I don't know if this would transfer to my Hudson since it is center pivot, but I would think the camber setting would since the tire sidewalls are stiffer. Anyone out there do their own alignments?



Rich

[Deleted User]

Hi Hudson Dave here . I am sure this will open a can of worms:eek: But I can only tell you what has been proven and WORKS for me:D . I set the caster as Hi as adjustments will allow ( for better tracking ) and set camber to the middle to lower side of specs . I set the toe at 1/16 . With www Radials .

At hiway speeds It will toe in To 0 . The only complaint I have ever gotten was it steers to easy ( untill they get used to It ) It is like P/S after bias ply tires:eek: If you go to www.FatWhiteWalls.com and look at the top and reed what people think of us That was written by a HET member After an alignment and a set of Diamond Back WWW Radials Thanks for the vote of confidence Super Dave Hudson Dave

Richie

Hudson Dave wrote:

Hi Hudson Dave here . I am sure this will open a can of worms:eek: But I can only tell you what has been proven and WORKS for me:D . I set the caster as Hi as adjustments will allow ( for better tracking ) and set camber to the middle to lower side of specs . I set the toe at 1/16 . With www Radials .

At hiway speeds It will toe in To 0 . The only complaint I have ever gotten was it steers to easy ( untill they get used to It ) It is like P/S after bias ply tires:eek: If you go to www.FatWhiteWalls.com and look at the top and reed what people think of us That was written by a HET member After an alignment and a set of Diamond Back WWW Radials Thanks for the vote of confidence Super Dave Hudson Dave

Hudson Dave, maybe you can advise me with my problem. I put radials on my stepdown as soon as I bought it because the old bias ply tires were dry rotted and not safe. I drove slowly to the tire store and had new radials put on. I didn't notice anything being wrong with the steering on the way to the tire store. On the way back the steering wheel won't go back to center after a turn or even a slight correction on the highway. It kinda stays where you put it. It is hard to keep it going straight. The front end was aligned and the numbers are Caster 2/10's of a degree pos. on left and 3/10's pos on the right.Camber is 7/10's pos on left and 5/10's pos on the right. Toe-in is 1/16. Is there something I can have done to make it more driver friendly? Thank you in advance for any help. Richie.

mars55

The stock alignment specifications for a Stepdown are as follows:



Caster: 1/2 to 1 1/2 degrees 1 degree preferred



Camber: 1/2 to 1 1/2 degrees



Maximum variation between right and left wheel caster or camber: 1/2 degree



Toe-in: 0 to 1/16 inches



Pivot Pin Inclination: 3 degree 36 minutes



Toe-out variation between wheels: +/- 30 minutes

Richie

mars55 wrote:

The stock alignment specifications for a Stepdown are as follows:



Caster: 1/2 to 1 1/2 degrees 1 degree preferred



Camber: 1/2 to 1 1/2 degrees



Maximum variation between right and left wheel caster or camber: 1/2 degree



Toe-in: 0 to 1/16 inches



Pivot Pin Inclination: 3 degree 36 minutes



Toe-out variation between wheels: +/- 30 minutes

mars55, thanks for the specs, my manual is the same. I brought the manual with me and gave it to the front end alignment specialist to use as a guide. He said what he did should be good. I will take it back now that I can drive it and ask to change the settings to at least one full degree for both caster and camber. Thanks again mars55. Richie.

SuperDave

Just thought I would toss this out to add to the info: As Hudson Dave says, Caster helps tracking. Hudsons, due to it's King Pin construction, are very limited in the amount of caster that can be adjusted in. I think I have about 2 3/4 degrees and had to cheat to do it, by grinding the upper outer bushings. Modern cars with radials AND ball joint design have a great deal more caster. The higher the caster, the more tendancy for that wheel to want to turn inward. If both sides are equal it should track straight on a LEVEL surface. It's common to have a spread in the caster to compensate for road crown. Having said that, radials sometimes have a mind of thier own. If the car pulls constantly to one side, maybe a slight change in the caster spread is called for?

This may sound crazy, but I have found some significant differences in the overall circumference in radial tires from the same manufacturer. Two different circumference tires on the front can cause some strange steering! I corrected the same problem on our Mercury GM. only 1/2 inch difference in circumference caused the car to pull left slightly at Interstate speeds. A simple tire rotation fixed the problem. (Larger differences could have some reprocussions in the automatic braking systems on modern cars).Radials don't change circumference with presure changes like a bias tire, so adding and deleteing air pressure won't correct a pull. The nature of radials is that they resist going anywhere but straight. If the toe adjustment is positive or negative, the tire side wall will flex until the tread is pulled back into line. This constant "searching" can be a little troubleing. It feels like the car can't find a "center'. The tires must be going exactly straight at road speed. That's why Hudson dave says to keep the toes setting Zero at speed. The bottom line, is experiment with Toe and caster, but don't eliminate a tire problem if the car doesn't "drive right". Remember we are trying to bring 1940's engineering into the modern age by installing a tire the car was not designed for.

[Deleted User]

Hi Steve , Hudson Dave here . Was this car sitting for a long time ? It sounds like somthing is starting to sieze up . King pin or pivot bushing . I would recommend you jack it up, put stands under lower control arms and lower car on to stands , lube all zerk fittings (make sure grease comes out of all of them ) With the car on stands after lube job, try turning the wheel left to right from the left front wheel . If it DOES NOT TURN FREELY, you have a problem . Altho the specs were not perfect, I don't see that causing the problem you have. If it is stiff I would disconnect the drag link and turn it again; if it is free, the problem is in the steering box (check oil in the box) If everything turns free when you have it up , Then the only thing it can be is the alignment . NOTE alignment specs are a guide line and ALL cars act differently . Hope this helps.

Hudson Dave

www.FatWhiteWalls.com

Richie

SuperDave wrote:

Just thought I would toss this out to add to the info: As Hudson Dave says, Caster helps tracking. Hudsons, due to it's King Pin construction, are very limited in the amount of caster that can be adjusted in. I think I have about 2 3/4 degrees and had to cheat to do it, by grinding the upper outer bushings. Modern cars with radials AND ball joint design have a great deal more caster. The higher the caster, the more tendancy for that wheel to want to turn inward. If both sides are equal it should track straight on a LEVEL surface. It's common to have a spread in the caster to compensate for road crown. Having said that, radials sometimes have a mind of thier own. If the car pulls constantly to one side, maybe a slight change in the caster spread is called for?

This may sound crazy, but I have found some significant differences in the overall circumference in radial tires from the same manufacturer. Two different circumference tires on the front can cause some strange steering! I corrected the same problem on our Mercury GM. only 1/2 inch difference in circumference caused the car to pull left slightly at Interstate speeds. A simple tire rotation fixed the problem. (Larger differences could have some reprocussions in the automatic braking systems on modern cars).Radials don't change circumference with presure changes like a bias tire, so adding and deleteing air pressure won't correct a pull. The nature of radials is that they resist going anywhere but straight. If the toe adjustment is positive or negative, the tire side wall will flex until the tread is pulled back into line. This constant "searching" can be a little troubleing. It feels like the car can't find a "center'. The tires must be going exactly straight at road speed. That's why Hudson dave says to keep the toes setting Zero at speed. The bottom line, is experiment with Toe and caster, but don't eliminate a tire problem if the car doesn't "drive right". Remember we are trying to bring 1940's engineering into the modern age by installing a tire the car was not designed for.

That is some good information SuperDave, I will be going back to the alignment shop Monday or Tuesday. Richie.

54Hollywood

Hi,

I wanted to follow up on this old thread with a question about tire squeal going around corners.  Bought some new radials for our '54 Hornet and am experiencing this problem and have been told that a wheel alignment could/would help.  Is that correct?  What would be out of align that would cause the tires to squeal?  And yes, the old radials did it too but I thought that was just because they were old.  Advice as always is much appreciated.  Thanks.

Tim in WI.

RichardD

differential not working; locked ??

bull_islander

How fast are you taking those corners?

54Hollywood

Differential works fine.  Tires inflated correctly.  Squeal is evident at slow cornering speeds.  So what's going on?  Thanks.

Lee ODell

Tim
You did not say how much air is in the tires. What is the tire pressure and tire pressure on sidewall of tire? The reason I ask is because not all radial tires are rated at the same tire pressure. The tire pressure is molded onto sidewall of tires.
Some are 35 psi
some are 36 psi
Some are 44 psi
some are 51 psi
some are something else
Most are 35 or 44 psi
The lower tire pressure you run with radials the greater chance down the road you will have a tire tread separation problem. I saw a lot of that problem in my alignment shop. Never saw that problem with over inflated tires.
Most likely you have a alignment problem. Possibly worn out or bent suspension parts. You can not set toe-in correctly with worn suspension.
Possibly something is preventing the inside wheel from turning more degrees than the outside wheel in the turns. Since the inside wheel turns in a shorter circle in a turn than the outside wheel the inside wheel must turn a couple degrees more than the outside wheel. The alignment shop can check how many degrees difference between left and right wheels when he turns the wheels on his turn tables. Right off hand I don't know the degree difference the Hudson requires. However, the greater the error the louder the tires will squeal around corners.
Hope it is a simple fix.
Lee O'Dell

54Hollywood

Lee and Ken,

Thanks very much for this helpful information.  Tire pressure is rated at 35 and I try to maintain that regularly.  These are 225/75R15 tires.  I will take this info to the shop and hope I can get it taken care of correctly.  Thanks again.

Tim in WI.