Stepdown power steering ideas

[Deleted User]

As some of you may have seen on E-bay yesterday, a '54 power steering set-up (siezed) went for over $500.00 without the dual groove crank pulley. Has anyone explored the use of a mid 70s Ford Granada, Torino, etc. They used a control valve and cylinder system very similar to the '54 set-up. Also, '68-'82 Corvette uses a similar system. I suppose a Saturday afternoon and $75.00 or $100.00 at the local Pick-N-Pull for an entire Ford or Mercury set-up might be the economical way to have power steering on a Stepdown. Ideas? Comments? Suggestions?

SuperDave

Dave,

I agree. I think something could be cobbled up that would replicate the original.

Not only was the pully not included, there were steering stops that were not included. I paid $ 800 for a similar setup a few years ago that did have the crank pully and a rusted out unuseable water pump pully.I had to use my non P.S. steering arm and fabricate the stops to boot!Then spent several more $ to have the cylinder, hoses and valve rebuilt. It was installed on a 54 Hornet for a friend. I converted my 49 to power rack and pinion. Having done that, I would go your route the next time. The big difference in the Ford/Hudson systems were that the ford used the assist on the cross "tie rod" system and the Hudson used the assist on the drag link. I have a 54 pump and crank pulley and have put them on the shelf for my next P.S. conversion that will attempt to use the ford system. It will be interesting to see if any other Forum members have done this.

[Deleted User]

SuperDave wrote:

Dave,

I agree. I think something could be cobbled up that would replicate the original.

Not only was the pully not included, there were steering stops that were not included. I paid $ 800 for a similar setup a few years ago that did have the crank pully and a rusted out unuseable water pump pully.I had to use my non P.S. steering arm and fabricate the stops to boot!Then spent several more $ to have the cylinder, hoses and valve rebuilt. It was installed on a 54 Hornet for a friend. I converted my 49 to power rack and pinion. Having done that, I would go your route the next time. The big difference in the Ford/Hudson systems were that the ford used the assist on the cross "tie rod" system and the Hudson used the assist on the drag link. I have a 54 pump and crank pulley and have put them on the shelf for my next P.S. conversion that will attempt to use the ford system. It will be interesting to see if any other Forum members have done this.

What is different between the PS and non-PS draglinks? Is there a tab for the cylinder to mount? How would it need to be modified ?

MikeWA

Some time back, a poster to this board explained a very innovative power steering setup utilizing an Isuzu power steering box (which is nearly a bolt-on swap), and combining the drag links from the Isuzu (on the steering box end) and the Hudson (on the center link end). I'll try to find it and post a link.

[Deleted User]

Mike (WA) wrote:

Some time back, a poster to this board explained a very innovative power steering setup utilizing an Isuzu power steering box (which is nearly a bolt-on swap), and combining the drag links from the Isuzu (on the steering box end) and the Hudson (on the center link end). I'll try to find it and post a link.

Found these:



http://www.classiccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8299&highlight=Isuzu



http://www.classiccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24332&highlight=Isuzu#post24332

MikeWA

Dave,

Yeah, it was the second thread you linked that I was thinking about. "Hudson Dave"- don't know if he still hangs around here or not (I can't keep all the various Daves straight in my aging head). Thanks for following it up.



Mike

SuperDave

That Isuzu set up does NOT just bolt into a stepdown. I did eventually find one and gave it a whirl. Hudson Dave says it's a bolt in, BUT he has PRE stepdowns. The probably do fit much easier on the older style cars. Tom Fink of the Orange Blossom Chapter converted his Hornet using the Isuzu, but it took extensive alterations and ended up being a little shy of correct.. at least in my opinion. The box was layed over on it's side and forward of the firewall brace. The steering arm had to be altered as well. The pump is small and easy to mount and uses a remote reservoir which I liked.

I also tried the center input rack which was (it seemed) a good idea. It would help eliminate bump steer. Couldn't get it to fit due to the way the input shaft angle ended up. I made several different mounts and still ended up with too much angle and got a bind in the input universal every 1/4 turn. The R&P setup requires some drastic alterations to the steering box/shaft. non reversable. If you are not satisfied with the end result, ya better have a parts car near by!. I ended up with a mid 80's GM Power R&P, A Cadillac intermediate shaft, Astro Pump and hydraboost set up for the pridemore discs I'm happy now, but would never do it over again. I was beyond the point of no return. I didn't have a parts car or I would have given up a long time ago!! LOL..

SuperDave

DaveFury wrote:

What is different between the PS and non-PS draglinks? Is there a tab for the cylinder to mount? How would it need to be modified ?

Dave, To address your questions about the differences..

The power assist cylinder output rod is mounted with a couple rubber shock bushings into a bracket bolted to the front subframe somewhere near and forward of the steering box. The drag link connects to the selector or servo valve on the forward end of the power assembly. That end also connects to the center steering arm. The power assist is a forward and backward operation. The pitman arm should have the ball on the outside of the arm (away from the engine) as opposed to the manual steering pitman arm that has the ball towards the engine. It also has different bends, so that it is very close to the frame. There are two brackets bolted to the frame that contact the pitman arm at extreme. They prevent the cylinder from over pressuring. By reversing the cylinder to servo 180 degrees, I was able to use the stock manual steering pitman arm. I made my own stops and bolted them to the frame. I made them adjustable as well with a bolt and welded nut. I have never seen the stock stops, so I don't know if they were adjustable or not. The original setup would keep the drag link and the cylinder more parallel than my system, but it worked fine.

As far as I can tell, there are no differences in the steering or pitman arm lengths for power or manual steering. It appears that the same turns lock to lock are designed into both systems. I decided that a longer pitman arm would speed up the steering and would be an improvement. Never got the chance to try it. the car is in Tennessee now.:)

[Deleted User]

SuperDave,



Thanks for all that info. Seems like it would be better to stick w/ a cylinder type set-up.

SuperDave

Dave,

The down side of the assist type, is the "slop". You have to turn the wheel a small amount for the valve to move to get the "boost'. Unless you have everything adjusted Just Right, you will find that you are constantly correcting .Of course there is a bit of that in the manual steering too! The Hudson system had the valve and cylinder as one assembly, Phord used separate parts with short hydraulic lines from the valve to the cylinder. takes up a lot of room. There isn't much room between the steering arm and the pitman arm. and even less on the SWB cars. The setup on my 68 Torino I had was never "right' . But I never had radials either. I think they would help along with some experimental caster and toe settings. I wish I could find Phord to rob some parts off, and experiment. Maybe one of the aftermarket PS setups offered for early Phord solid axles would work, but they are a bit pricey to start hacking up.

yep, you are right, keep it as original as possible. In my case, I had rotator cuff problems and ended up with surgery. If I didn't do something, I wasn't going to be able to drive my Hudson... Not an option! doing all the work on the car was my therapy..LOL

I'm surprised no one else on the forum has tried what you suggested.

[Deleted User]

SuperDave,



Yeah, as rare and pricy the '54 step-up is, I too am wondering if anyone else has tried the Ford system.

[Deleted User]

What year Isuzu Trooper steering gear box? pre '87 or '87-'93? Does it matter?

Unknown

Lee and/or John Ponteous have the Corvette setup on 41 Travelers.

[Deleted User]

DaveFury wrote:

What year Isuzu Trooper steering gear box? pre '87 or '87-'93? Does it matter?

Does anyone remember what year(s)?

Ol racer

DaveFury wrote:

Does anyone remember what year(s)?

FYI

I read on pg 1 in a link '84 - '95 Trooper SUV and some pickup's.....

[Deleted User]

Thanks Ol Racer!

SuperDave

Ol racer wrote:

FYI

I read on pg 1 in a link '84 - '95 Trooper SUV and some pickup's.....

Thanks, Olracer.

Sorry I didn't respond to your question Dave. I was trying to remember! Takes me a while now adays... I did find a picture that I hijacked from ebay .. and saved. I don't know why..it's a picture of a standard box, but the configuration is the same. Might help a little.

The steering subject is also being rehashed up on the street rod s section of this forum. Some good ideas being thrown about..:)



http://s276.photobucket.com/albums/kk4/SuperDave1939/?action=view&current=Isuzustdbox.jpg

bob ward

The talk about phord PS systems reminds that a few years ago I looked hard at how power-in-the-box PS from a Falcon or Fairlane would fit onto a stepdown. The Hudson's fore and aft draglink, and the centre steering pivot would have been dispensed with.



From memory, the steering box and idler arm could be mounted to the chassis rails fairly simply, and without excluding the return to standard components.



A custom made drag link would have been needed to connect the steering arm to the idler arm AND, importantly, to pick up the inboard ends of the stock stepdown track rods.



The custom track rod was the stopper, as back then I didn't have the facilities to fabricate such an item, but nowadays I could probably tackle it.



I might put this back on the round toit list.

Chris Smith

Has anyone concidered Studebaker P.S. ? My Avanti's steering set up mirrors the Hudson and studebaker has the center steering system.

Chris Smith

On second thought, the power assist ram sits horizontal to the engine like a ford but it is on the front side of the engine.