Steering changes 53 Hornet ?

Unknown

Has anyone switched the left & right wheel to change the steering to the front? I have a 53 HH sedan with a chevy small block and was thinking that if the steering could be changed to the front ( replacing ball joints) there could be power steering added with a new ps box mounted further forward to activate a ford rack & pinion or some other type of full length tie rod? could be adapted with correct pitman arm.



Car still in paint shop so don't know if I will be bring it to the national. Will try to post more pics soon. Thanks, John H.

Ol racer

FYI

I have seen power R&P steering on Stepdowns with the spindles in stock location. You would need to get a R&P from a car mounted on the rear of spindles (rear steer) and use the GM P/S Pump. 3/4" moly Shaft tubing & U/Jnts are avail from most Hot Rod Shops



I read on this Forum that others have considered '58-'63 Chevy & Corvette power assit Units because of their similarity to Hudson's power assist.



Anything is possible. I have a GM 605 power steering box connected to a Terraplane straight axle.....

SuperDave

First I want to address the reason for adding PS. I'm sure there are lot of folks saying "WHY?" . For most of us, the original steering is fine. If all the parts are in good condition and adjusted correctly, the Hudson Stepdown is a joy to drive, especially the SWB cars. Having said that, there are some of us geezers that have shoulder problems that cause pain and acheing after hard use. That makes driving the Hudson a "pain". So in order to keep enjoying the Hudson and DRIVING it, verses looking at it in the garage, we have to get some help. Going to the 54 Steering setup would be the least intrusive, but can be very expensive. So some of us have looked for alternatives. In my case, the R&P ended up being more work and just as costly as the original 54 type steering.. hind sight is wonderful isn't it? LOL.

I also considered making my stepdown a "front steer" Vs the original rear steer. Simply swapping the spindles left to right etc. would put the steering arms up front. I can't recall the reason I nixed the idea. ?? Using a GM PS box from a metric GM, maybe a 86 Monte Carlo would do. A long steering shaft extension to place the box in front of the centerline of the spindles would connect it. I'm thinking that maybe the radiator core support may have been in the way?? Not sure... Old Racer's suggestion of a R&P is spot on. Maybe placing the R&P up front (front steer) using a Mustang R&P. I know that fitting a R&P inplace of the Center steering mount is difficult. Not much room between the pan and the crossmember and placing it too low would make it prone to hitting obstructions, like debris on the road or bottoming out. If you have another engine in place of the Hudson, engine, you may have even less room? It ends up being a compromise that has bump steer. Not a good thing. The short (Very short) tie rod ends on the R&P cause bump steer to be much more than the Hudson original design. Bump steer comes into play when the control arms go through their travel (arc), they pull or push the steering arm in or out. When both wheels are moving up and down equal to each other..no problem. It's when one wheel goes up and another doesn't then things get dicey.The toe-in changes rapidly, Like in a strong side wind that causes the body to roll or a hard corner... As old racer mentioned, make sure you use a R&P or steering box that is intended to go in front or behind the center line of the spindles. Otherwise your steering will be oposite as you intended!! There are a lot of PS options to be found in racer catalogs. Lots of fuel for the curious mind.. Keep thinking and communicating.



A small PS box that replaces the original sure would solve a lot of problems. I was really hopeing that the Isuzu would be the answer.

.

Unknown

I found the following on this BBS --- cira 2006



I am going to provide a brief reply to this request as I have not gotten the information to the onwer of the following business.

W. H. Goodwin runs Nine Lives Restorations, which provides Rack and pinion set ups based on a replacement frame stub. His market focus is actually street rods. He can do Stepdown and other models of Hudson's but to date has no measurements. I need to send him a Hudson Stepdown frame measurement sheet. Good Luck



Nine Lives restoration & Classic Autos

414 Baxter Lane

San Augustine, Texas 75972

936-275-1551

Dr_G@9livesrestorations.com





www.9livesrestoration.com

__________________

Ken Cates

Waco, Texas



Ken Cates' STEPDOWN RESTORATION WEBSITE

[Deleted User]

I at one time had a late model Chrysler 300 rack and pinion outfit mocked up on a stepdown.



The feature here is that they are "center take off" rack and pinion systems which mimic the original geometry of the stepdown front end. Believe it or not, the tie rods were the same length. The "300" tie rods were solid and needed the wheel end fitted with an adjustable heim joint, or something. Two simple brackets were needed to mount the rack off the stepdown front crossmember, no clearance issues.



Its possible to mount one of these in place of the center point system, and all your Hudson geometry stay the same, in every respect. The kicker was, the steering input shaft was at a really hard angle to deal with.



I understand there are "other" center point rack and pinion systems from other makes. I never investigated the situation further than what I've mentioned here. I kinda fell in love with the original setup, particularly SWB Hudsons (Right On Super Dave!), so I wound up not changing anything.



Mark

SuperDave

Mark,

That was the same problem I had with the center takeoff R&P. That unit was originally mounted to the firewall of the car. The steering shaft came straight back through the firewall. The tie rods were attached to the front of the R&P. When it was placed down behind the Hudson Crossmember, the steering input was at a radical angle. If I mounted the R&P at enough of an angle so that I could connect the steering input, the tie rods ended up being under the Cylinder. That won't work!, So I made a bracket that moved the inner tie rod mounting around to the front again. I have a picture of it somewhere, That would have worked, but the steering input angles were still so severe that it would bind every 1/4 turn. I liked that R&P because of the bumpsteer elimination and it didn't require so much braceing. It would work if I had not used the original steering box case as my bottom termination. If I had cut the steering shaft just outside the firewall (Shorter) and used a longer universal shaft, maybe with three universals, It may have worked . I have a single lever transmission and the linkage bellcrank mounts on the steering box and I guess I was too lazy to make a replacement for that. It was easier to leave the shell of the steering box to anchor the bottom of the steering shaft and keep the original linkage. That "Hind sight" thing pops up again.. LOL maybe next time...

[Deleted User]

Great minds think alike huh?



I didn't realize we were talking about the same center point R&P.



There are other center take off units, besides the chyrsler firewall mounted type. I can't tell you which cars/makes they were used on because I dropped the idea and stopped pursuing the idea.



Probably the simplest idea is to modify one of the small Saginaw units to work in lieu of the original gearbox. Similiar to what OlRacer has done.



I'm always interested in this topic, I'll have to come up with something "power" eventually.



Mark

Unknown

http://www.hudsonmotorcar.org/News/article/sid=20.html



Hey guys, try this site and see how Ray up in Edmonton did his car, apparently it drives and steers very nicely. The best part is he didn't change the geometry of the original steering.

Unknown

Charlie Harris and his Hudson buddies in Omaha Ne have built and installed R and P steering with Power is several Stepdown Hudsons. Charlie is in the Roster... fromer Big Country director and Nebraska Iowa Chapter president.

Unknown

You may want to talk to Walt Mordenti, at the Big Country Meet his 53 Hornet was sporting a GM r&p unit and PS pump. At 87 he is still ready to try new things , anything to make driving his Hudson easier is ok. Lou Cote :cool:

SuperDave

Jimalberta wrote:

http://www.hudsonmotorcar.org/News/article/sid=20.html



Hey guys, try this site and see how Ray up in Edmonton did his car, apparently it drives and steers very nicely. The best part is he didn't change the geometry of the original steering.

Jim, Good Ideas, I remember reading those posts. In retrospect, it would retain a lot of the same "feel' that you are still driving a Hudson. The R&P makes it a completely different animal..(Sometimes not a very "tame" one..LOL..) I never mentioned what I did about the horn wire. I used test lead rubber insulated wire it's very flexible and intended to be flexed without hardening and breaking. I soldered it to the horn button behind the steering wheel, ran it out at the bottom of the shaft and wrapped it around the universal several times to give it room to flex and not "wind up " tight. Hooked it up to the horn relay., works fine. A lot easier than making a brush take off.

SuperDave

I was fortunate to correspond with charlie and Walt. Charlie sent several pictures that shoed the mounting bracket etc. he had a hornet sub frame off the car to use as a mockup. That would have been a joy! I did mine on the car with the engine in place. I used the original steering box as my lower "bracket" for the steering shaft rather than use Charlies method. Also I ran a test lead rubber insulated wire for the horn. Down the center tube and wrapped around the upper universal a couple of times so I didn't need to make a brush "takeoff" for the horn. I think Walt did a more radical swap on his. He quoted some very high caster numbers when I asked about how to get the car to track straight. or "return to center". As it turns out, he changed his sub frame. As I recall it is a Mopar ?? Having ball joints instead of king pins is a BIG plus. If walt is lurking here, maybe he will step in and clarify. Both were emensly helpful.



I mentioned in an earlier post that I had not seen original steering stops on a 54.. I was wrong..poor memory. I found a pic I took of Dick Hitt's original 54 Hornet PS and the steering stops were adjustable.



Dave Sollen mentioned that the Ebay cylinder looked strange. Here is a picture of a 54 stepdown cylinder as removed from the car. The ebay one is hard to see, but seems to have a line port near the end of the cylinder unlike this picture. I haven't figured out how to post a picture yet due to "size" but here is a link to the photobucket picture http://s276.photobucket.com/albums/kk4/SuperDave1939/?action=view&current=Hudsonengine008.jpg

[Deleted User]

I changed the steering on my 53 hornet to the front of the vehicle working in reverse No need to change the wheels or tie rods. I cut column shaft and mounted universal off it to a supported adjustable shaft over the A arm to a 1972 chevy van steering box mounted on a bracket built to the frame using a 7"Camaro pitman arm to a manufactured drag link to the original hudson center point arm.

Chevy box has a dropped arm which gets you parralel to the Hudson original arm at center point.

3.5 turns lock to lock works perfect.



Why? Because I have a Mopar 360 engine with the starter very much in the way.

Be sure to mount the the adjustable shaft between box and steering column high enough to allow for full travel of the A arm.

You will need to drop or eliminate the torsion bar on front I dropped mine. 2"

Also have power disc brakes all round.

[Deleted User]

53Hornet wrote:

I changed the steering on my 53 hornet to the front of the vehicle working in reverse No need to change the wheels or tie rods. I cut column shaft and mounted universal off it to a supported adjustable shaft over the A arm to a 1972 chevy van steering box mounted on a bracket built to the frame using a 7"Camaro pitman arm to a manufactured drag link to the original hudson center point arm.

Chevy box has a dropped arm which gets you parralel to the Hudson original arm at center point.

3.5 turns lock to lock works perfect.



Why? Because I have a Mopar 360 engine with the starter very much in the way.

Be sure to mount the the adjustable shaft between box and steering column high enough to allow for full travel of the A arm.

You will need to drop or eliminate the torsion bar on front I dropped mine. 2"

Also have power disc brakes all round.

53 Hornet,



I saw your power steering modification pictures on Hudsonmotorcar.org. Very nice install, while still maintaining the famous Hudson center point steering. You might want to post a link to the pics so the others here can take a peek at your fine work.