I seek knowledge

esfoder

Hey guys have any of you ever put some nitrous to one of these old girls?

I'm totally hooked on the hudson engines and cars and like some input.

My concern is the rods? They look a little spindly??



Any help would be great. I'm gonna do it any way so save me some time and money??



Thanks

Ol racer

I have a small NOS Cheater Nitrous set-up on my Hornet but have not tried it yet due to sorting other 'bugs' with a newly constructed car. Head gasket sealing is my primary concern followed by having only 4 main Brgs . Consequently I jetted the NOS system as low as I could just to enhance the burn and not need a dedicated fuel pump & line... I have experience running direct port Nitrous on a big block Chevy...It works well....



Use Head studs and the new Permbond Gasket...... Plan to retard the Timing prior to using NOS every time or install a Dist retard...

[Deleted User]

Ol racer wrote:

I have a small NOS Cheater Nitrous set-up on my Hornet but have not tried it yet due to sorting other 'bugs' with a newly constructed car. Head gasket sealing is my primary concern followed by having only 4 main Brgs . Consequently I jetted the NOS system as low as I could just to enhance the burn and not need a dedicated fuel pump & line... I have experience running direct port Nitrous on a big block Chevy...It works well....



Use Head studs and the new Permbond Gasket...... Plan to retard the Timing prior to using NOS every time or install a Dist retard...

Ol Racer,



Does ARP make a stud kit, or do you buy the studs individually. How long are they?

Ol racer

Dave,

I currently use stock Rods and bolts after magnifluxing and balancing. I know ARP makes a rod bolt for Hornet because a couple guys use them. After installing (any) new Bolts have the rods recondition to the new bolts at a machine shop. I guess I should have gone with ARP, but I put a lot of Laps wide open on Hornets and only lost one motor due to a 'cast' piston breaking at the wrist pin...



I did install a main cap 'Stud kit' from Clifford yrs ago with steel bars across the caps with a Crankshaft Co Stroker. Apparently it was not necessary since the Kit disappeared later from the Catalog.



I am certain ARP makes a Stud length to fit. Just measure the Main bolt then add for a washer and deep Nut.

(Incidently, Studs install only snug, not double nut tightened)....

esfoder

Hey ol racer thanks for the info. I don't plan on turning it past say 5000 rpm or so and just want to make sure that the bottom end is up to the task. I also have experience with nitrous and big chevy's but this is a differnt animal. I planned on using a port system with a twin h set up and maybe a couple of the new demon 98s.



What do you think?

Ol racer

No reason Hudson cant handle some NOS since its on many other motors. I would run a dedicated fuel line but start out with small Jets. I cut off a Twin H carb single bases then die ground to adapt dual 2 bbls (Rochester 2GC).F/Inj is the best set-up but I think small carbs are pretty responsive (Torque). Larger carbs give more total Power but are not necessarily quicker...



I would radius all the rod journals but not rev over 4500 RPM even re-balanced. I have read of a few turning higher but risky....

[Deleted User]

On the ARP rod bolts etc., here is a link to the topic discussed a couple of years ago:

http://www.classiccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5159&highlight=Hudson+Ford+bolts



351 Cleveland Ford rod bolts.



One thing I'd really want you guys to consider if whiffing some NOS, is the camshaft lobe separation angle. Randy Maas' "Hot Cam" is tailor made for such with its 114* lobe separation angle. We're finding the wide angles are even beneficial to the flathead whether its whiffed or not. Preserves more of your theoretical compression in the dynamic state. We simply don't have the option of running rediculously high static compressions and then bleeding them back down to 9:1 or lower dynamic with valve overlap like OHV engines do.



If I were building a street sweeper with NOS from the start, I might even consider the Super 7x cam - with a wider lobe separation angle than its stock configuration. The lower lift at .391 and the more conservative duration @ 268 would come nearer using the increased in-cylinder pressure of NOS efficiently than the wider duration Hot Cam. Meaning, you'd get more bang transfered to the piston over the duration of the burn without losing it out the exhaust valve or taking a chance on a real bad backfire (explosion) through the intake.



Mark

esfoder

Yes that works in the big cheys I deal with. Thanks for the info I'll be giving Randy a call here in the next few weeks to do some business. I was going to start with a modest 50 shot to start and creep up from there. Any ideas on weather the stock pistons are up to this kind of abuse? Ant ideas on where to get some forged pistons without going the full custom route? Last set I got for my BBC cost me $819 for a set of 8. Not counting rings. (478 blown on alky). As for the fuel line I always run a seperate line and pump to control the pressure.



I'll let ya all knw what happens when it happens



Dusty

Ol racer

FYI

Keep in mind 'just a sniff' from small Jets enhances the Combustion Burn greatly and wont need a dedicated fuel pump & Line...Its ez'r on the components too....Just remember to always retard the Timing a few Degrees beforehand....

[Deleted User]

Venolia made my pistons up to NOS standard, even though I never intended to use them for that.



Here's what I ran into, the block relief. Evidently the top ring distance from the fire is important. This would seem simple until you run into the depth of the relief and you realize that the top ring is much closer to the fire at that point than from the deck proper. That is something you'll have to measure for yourself as they all are a little different.



I'd call Ross or Venolia and consult with them on what you want to do as far as ring placement. Price per piston will run you about the same as your V8, just two pistons less. Probably around $600-$675. Having a flat-top helps cut the price down nearer the $600 range.



Keep us informed of what you wind up with, you never know who might try to walk in your footprints.



Mark

esfoder

Thanks for the info Mark. I was going to call Ross and see what they said about my setup. My next question is what about the rods? I know I could call Crower and have them make me some customs but are they really needed?

The stockers just look like stilts to me? Maybe I'm just used to looking at Big Chevy rods. The rod bolt link is good info but I just have my doubts about the stock rods?(PARANOID)



Any sugestions would be great



Dusty

Ol racer

FYI

Keep in mind all the early 50's NASCAR Hudson Racers ran hundreds of miles wide open 3 - 4 times a week on the stock rods & bolts. In the 60's there were some hard core drag racers breaking Records on stock components too (Jack Clifford; Ike Smith; Sloane McCauley, Chuck Parcell to name just a few right up to today where some of the guys may use ARP bolts for comfort, but dont think they switch Rods.

I have heard that Hornet's may break a crank (if reved too high) or break cast pistons under heavy load with steep compression, but not rod bolts or rods.....Since they are available now, If can afford them, would be good assurance....

[Deleted User]

You will find that the stock Hudson rods have an exceptional strength to weight ratio. They truly are an excellent rod. I used ARP bolts on my stock rods just to be sure I had exact torque characteristics. The rods I had magnafluxed and checked for balance. My old machinist said they were right on. These from a engine I knew had not been cracked open. Hudson did a nice job on balancing those engines.