Some questions for the Hot Rod Hudson guys..

Unknown

I noticed that Hudson 262's use the same bore size as a 359 Packard straight eight, so I am wondering what the pin height is on a 262, as well as the rod length and the size (length, diameter) of the rod bearings. The reason for the curiosity is that I'm building a rather "high performance" Packard engine and am wondering where you guys get your performance pistons. From what I can tell from my old Hudson blocks and parts that I used to have is that the Hudson engine is built a lot like the Packard eights, same angled valves and other details. Since there's a LOT more people racing Hudsons than there are Packards, I plan on doing a lot of the modifications that you guys do to your engines to mine. Any help will be GREATLY appreciated!!

[Deleted User]

Hey Packman, how's the WGD's coming?



Anyhow, your questions. Best option on the pistons is to have Ross or Venolia make them for you to your own dimensions for a performance hammering. Much like us, you'll be running a high piston speed due to stroke, production pistons are not designed to handle that. One good thing is that if you look through the ring mfg's catalogs, you can find a V8 set of rings that will work and have your custom pistons cut to fit those rings. That one little step can make the difference up between the cost of the custom flat-top pistons and some off the shelf pistons. Saves you on ring costs and makes a freshening up much easier.



Piston compression height on the 262: 2.060-2.064"



All stepdown series rods are the same, from the narrow to wide block 6.

8.125" long, center to center

2.125" rod journal diameter

The rod bearing is 2.125" diameter and 1.675" wide.

Wristpin is 0.96875" diameter by 1.125" wide bushing in the small end of the rod.



Mark

Unknown

Thanks for the info Mark, but I'm not using WGD's. I plan on using two HS6 S.U.'s bolted directly onto two turbochargers on my engine. Running E85, of course!



I have a 1953 327 that I'm sleeving and since I have to sleeve it, I figured I'd go out to 359 bore, which is 3.5625", the stock 327 bore is 3.5". I was hoping to find a close piston to use in this engine, and about crapped my pants when I seen that the 262 uses the same bore. But since with my eventual combination of 327 stroke (4.125") and 359 bore (3.5625") and the use of the longer 288 Packard rods (7.9375") my pin height comes to 1.875", compared to the stock 2.125". The Hudson with a pin height of 2.060" makes it a little tall for my use, and the rod bearing width of 1.3125" for the Packard vs. 1.675" makes the rods out of the question too. But the good news is that if some of you guy's have had pistons made at some of the better piston manufacturers, then it shouldn't be too big a deal for me to have some made, as all they'll have to do is change the pin height and I'm good to go.

terraplane8

Turbopackman wrote:

Thanks for the info Mark, but I'm not using WGD's. I plan on using two HS6 S.U.'s bolted directly onto two turbochargers on my engine. Running E85, of course!



I have a 1953 327 that I'm sleeving and since I have to sleeve it, I figured I'd go out to 359 bore, which is 3.5625", the stock 327 bore is 3.5". I was hoping to find a close piston to use in this engine, and about crapped my pants when I seen that the 262 uses the same bore. But since with my eventual combination of 327 stroke (4.125") and 359 bore (3.5625") and the use of the longer 288 Packard rods (7.9375") my pin height comes to 1.875", compared to the stock 2.125". The Hudson with a pin height of 2.060" makes it a little tall for my use, and the rod bearing width of 1.3125" for the Packard vs. 1.675" makes the rods out of the question too. But the good news is that if some of you guy's have had pistons made at some of the better piston manufacturers, then it shouldn't be too big a deal for me to have some made, as all they'll have to do is change the pin height and I'm good to go.

What is the advantage of turbos over a McCulloch supercharger - are you planning on running higher boost? Have you seen the supercharged Packard 8 rod on you tube? It's a real nice piece of work and sounds just great.

Unknown

Yes I've seen the car, and about 10 years ago I thought about doing that, but decided that turbos are the best option. And yes, I plan on running about 12-14psi of boost with 8:1 compression. Using twin turbos will allow me to run smaller turbos for faster spoolup and to allow better fuel distribution with a draw-thru setup.



As for superchargers on Packards, I've already done that:

super651

Turbopackman, I left you a P.M. Thanks Rudy

Unknown

I thought you guy's might like some pics of my project, so here goes:











Modified brake pedals:







New engine mounts to convert the side mounts that '51 and up use to front mounts like the '50 and back use.(The chassis is a '37 Packard 115c) I couldn't use the side mounts as the steering box is in the way!







Chrysler 2.2L/2.5L turbo as received, and I have an identical one on the way:



The turbo after I removed the EGR crap that I won't be needing:



The turbo housing with one of the HS6 SU's that I am using, they share the same diameter openings, and I think two of them would be plenty for a 5000 RPM max flathead.

Unknown

I had started on one of these years ago, but never got as far as I have in the last couple of months. I've always wanted to turbocharge a Packard straight eight, hence my nickname. I'm trying to make this as "authentic" as I can, albeit turbocharged. Every part I'm using other than the turbochargers are authentic vintage parts. So far, the only thing that's not Packard is the cowl, which is a 1914 Maxwell. You can check up on the progress if you're interested at http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=738&forum=10



BTW, this is what I plan on having when I get done:







With a combination of elements from this:

Unknown

Sorry about the width of the pics, I've tried everything I can think of to get them smaller, but to no avail.

ESSX28-1

Turbopackman wrote:

Sorry about the width of the pics, I've tried everything I can think of to get them smaller, but to no avail.

If you are running Microsoft's XP system then the MS Powertoys suite offers a good (& easy to use) Image Resizer for free. Download it at :

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/Downloads/powertoys/Xppowertoys.mspx

Unknown

Nope, I'm using a Mac, with OSX Leopard, but I've got it figured out now.

Unknown

Since it's been a while since I've posted on here I figured I'd give you guys a little update on what I've been doing the past few weeks. Winter was hell without a heated garage so I shut down and just got started back up recently. So, onto the pics!



























The cowl is from a 1936 Packard Super Eight Convertible Sedan, a car that only 5 or 6 are known to exist. And no, I didn't feel bad cutting it up!:eek: And that's me on the back of the "War Chariot", as my wife calls it!

rambos_ride

Great looking stuff - I've got to learn more about turbos

mrsbojigger

Excellent! Excellent!
I hope you keep the solid wheels (rims) in your re-creation just like in the photo.
Peace,
Chaz

bent metal

Cool project. Where you say your going to have it be a cross between the two cars pictured. Is it going to be more of a race car, or more like the fancy car? Have you made any drawings that we could see?



Very interesting project.:)

Unknown

I'll be keeping the solid wheels, with "Packard Super Eight" hubcaps on them, and it'll be more towards the race car, no fenders, and two little windshields instead of a single large one.



Hubcaps:



Another interesting thing about these engines is that I'm thinking I can use Hudson valves in it, and if so, I'll have an easy source for stainless valves. That is, if I can find them just a little bit longer than stock.

[Deleted User]

This is very high on my Cool-O-meter.



Just recently obtained high speed internet and able to see those photos.



War Chariot, I dig that.



Mark

Unknown

I haven't got much done on this since I bought my '48, but I spent the last couple of days in the garage trying to figure out the plumbing for the turbos and where the intake will have to be, as well as figuring out the air box. Here's some pics:























The fuel injection unit will have the throttle body between the turbos and the FI unit, where the small rubber hose is. Right now, I'm thinking of the intake pipes making an "S" bend, coming out of the block and up into the air box. This way, it clears the exhaust pipes, which will come out the passenger's side and run down the length of the car. Also, I was going to put a hood on it, but now it just won't work as everything is too high. Oh well, this much oddity shouldn't be hidden anyway! The "air box" will be made from a Packard V8 valve cover, extended by a Hash Packard V8 valve cover to reach the length I need. The valve cover is in it's approximate position of where it will rest when I'm done.

Unknown

One thing I would like to find and maybe some of you guys can help me find is a '47 and back Hudson hood. I'm thinking of using one for the top part of my boattail, so it doesn't need to be perfect. A little rust or dents won't matter too much, as long as it's cheap!

[Deleted User]

Very cool indeed dude! Keep the pics coming. We are all anxious to see how it turns out.

Unknown

A little update, now I have a pair of 356's to use instead of the rusty, crusty 327.

The first one, a '47 356:





Then, a '48 356 block with cam and lifters:







Next, the '47 356 with my HEI and Chrysler generator-p/s pump combo, which will be for the power steering and the Hydraboost brakes:

Unknown

I'm debating on which head to use, because the stock '47 356 head with "HC" stamped in it is pretty cool looking, but I don't like the itty bitty 10mm plugs. The head that's on it now is the 327 '53 engine, which has a lot smaller combustion chambers. From left to right, the '53 327 head, '47 356 head, and '48 356 head:

Unknown

But since I'm using the turbos on it, I can stand to use a lower compression ratio head. The stock '47 head was about 6.85:1, and I'm thinking that the 327 head on the 356 engine will make the compression ratio about 8:1. The higher compression ratio in addition to the approx. 10 psi with the turbos doesn't worry me, as this engine will be running E85. I'll be using FI too, as soon as I can figure out how to put two injectors in a 1&5/8" tube and as close to the intake ports as possible without having them interfere with each other. Here's one of the injectors:

Unknown

A little update, I ended up with a '38 Packard Super Eight hood, and decided to go ahead and use fenders, as visions of rocks and mud flying up in my face while driving made me look for fenders. I already had the '33-'34 Twelve rear fenders, so I had to find something that closely matched. In this case, I found a pair of '29 Chevy truck front fenders, the closest ones I could find that matched and were free. I would prefer '34 Packard fenders, but it's not in the cards right now. I also had a '54 Packard 359 aluminum head given to me, which might end up on my '48 when it gets the 4bbl naturally aspiriated 356 after I'm done with the Speedster. I'm thinking a cast iron head might be more durable with the turbos.







The '38 hood doesn't quite match the '36 cowl, so some modifications are in order:





A look down the driver's side:





Side view:





The '38 originally had the front fenders matching the hood line there on the bottom. I've decided to leave this open like it is, as it covers the engine well enough and still leaves it open enough to get a good glance at the engine. Kinda like "lingerie" for that beautiful 356!

Unknown

I've already got the FI setup, it's a Bosch K-Jetronic unit. It has to be the simplest fuel injection I've ever seen, and needs no computer. I figure I'll put the injectors as close to the valves as possible, and blow through it. Of course, I'm building my own manifolds, so I can put them wherever I want to.



The Thunderbolt head is a '52-'53 and up Packard head, and are pretty common. There's several different heads, all with different combustion chambers. The 288AT head is supposed to be the smallest chambers, and the 356 head from '50 and back have to be the biggest. Unfortunately, the Thunderbolt head I have is pitted severely in the chambers, so it's pretty much garage art now. I thought I had another one but if I do it's hiding pretty well, as I can't find it anywhere. I do have a 288AT head that doesn't say Thunderbolt, from a '51, and it'll probably be the head I'll use on the Speedster, and use the aluminum 359 head on the '48. By the time I get the engine built, I'm sure I'll come up with more heads, as things seem to come out of the woodwork when you've decided on a direction and already start that way!