Funding for Antique Cars

Unknown

Well folks, it has started.

The current financial debauchal directly affected the automotive retail market today. Capital One the principle backer of auto credit and loans on new automobiles suspended credit support to all NY and NJ auto dealers. Personally I was wondering how this will affect the antique auto market and in paticular the market value of Hudson automobiles?

[Deleted User]

IMHO, almost everything will be going down in price. People are jittery about spending any cash that they still have. I would guess the Hudson market will soften aswell but a good thing about Hudsons is there are so few forsale and we have a supply and demand advantage over other makes. Good news is if you have cash then you should be able to find some great deals outthere in the near future. Soon we will be able to find a Hemi 'Cuda for under a hundred grand again!

[Deleted User]

There is potential for our Hudsons to appreciate during this time. When things are shaky, folks like to invest in objects that appreciate (like antiques, precious metals) instead of depreciating items (like electronics and new cars).

[Deleted User]

You are seeing the value of nearly everything drop right now, and Hudsons are by no means exempt. Their MIGHT be a certain amout of appreciation later on, but with the credit crunch, banks are not lending on much of anything. Classic cars are not exactly considered a necessity by any lender. People are keeping their cash, period. Those that might have a few bucks are in position to snap up bargains. Those that don't, are not.



I think that in the short term, very few classic and muscle cars will actually SELL unless they become dirt-cheap, but bartering will become a huge player. If you have something cool in a classic, you will likely find a willing trader, I'm quite certain.

frank spring

I will not add to the negative press. That is how we got to where we are today anyway. I will weigh in on the side of appreciation. All this money has to go somewhere if it isnt in the market. Investment grade cars will have high value. Drivers will go down. Everyone is entitled to their opinion right?

[Deleted User]

Reality is what it is. The car market tanked in the late '70s, again in 1988, and yet again around 2000. And, in 2008, we see it happening again, but this time it's not just classic cars. Everything is cyclic...everything!



The ridiculous B-J auctions in Vegas and Scottsdale ought to be pretty interesting. Yes, the high-end investment cars will remain high for the vast majority of us, but they will not be bringing nearly what they did in '05 and '06. If you recall, last year's prices at B-J were down by over 15% overall. This year, I believe that will double. Just watch. Not pessimism. Just reality.

Unknown

Just saw a spot on the news about a local excavating company that had 250 employees and annual sales of 75 million dollars. The employees have been dismissed and the once prosperous 30 year old business is up for auction. Although they had millions in receivables, the banks wouldn't renew their line of credit. BTW, one of the delinquent customers is the state. All the state comptroller could say was sorry, we're broke too. Just one year ago, what was once the American dream for two brothers, their families and employees is gone. Just goes to show you that nobody is immune to this mess.

Unknown

someone just bought a rare colt pistol for $920,000, saw that yesterday in the news. I think the rare will always have the market draw, the folks that are in that caliber of the market, are not hurting like the rest of the working class is. I think the rare and high priced will stay that way, and the common or easily acquired will come down. Drivers will become affordable, once again. Like that Frank Spring guy said.

Unknown

I guess the buyer of that Colt wasn't in group of men I saw today at a local auto parts store, each dressed in a business suit. They were asking how to change the oil in their luxury cars. It was sad to watch them trying to pick out oil, filters, filter wrenches and catch pans. One guy even asked a clerk if he was supposed to bring the used oil back for a credit.

faustmb

I was thinking about this the other day too, with the recent crazy boom in classic cars. Seems like in the last few years, every muscle car with a Maaco paint job is 20K +. Just like the housing, I think the market has to correct itself. This is bad for people that bought high, but overall needed for the market. There will be a lot of drivers and projects for good prices, people want cash on hand right now.



My .02



Matt

[Deleted User]

frank spring wrote:

All this money has to go somewhere if it isnt in the market. Investment grade cars will have high value. Drivers will go down.

You hit the nail on the head!!!



Kevin C.

Aaron D. IL

Credit is what greases the gears of our economy without it we're in trouble because there's no savings rate to speak of. Some have long figured eventually they'd cash out of their restored old car as if it was a savings account. All fine and good if you can sell it for more than you got into it. Few of us pull that off in reality. I think people would take their money out of the market and put it into collectables, but there again I think financing of one form or another is used to purchase finished cars because the owners figure if they're going to own the car for a while they don't need to pay it all up front.

I'm in wait n see mode on this one, but I really don't plan to sell any cars unless something wild happens.

[Deleted User]

All of my vehicles are paid for, so I personally don't "have" to sell anything. Like I said, bartering is the way to go. You are not going to see a lot of cash changing hands, plain and simple. If any of you are the person who sees your car as a rolling 401k, guess what? It dropped, too! Not as fast as the stock market has this week, but it's worth less this week, too, nonetheless.

Browniepetersen

In my antique auto assessment business I have been watching to see what blips happen. Some of the recent markets, specifically those that use "reserves" to protect the seller from taking a bath on a car, are having a lot more cars not meet reserve. I agree with Frank when he says investment grade cars will hold their value through this financial period. But, I have experienced in my business that the oportunistic "pesudo" old car guy--those who have been buying and selling "driving grade" or "belly-button" cars are trying to dump them at cost or just below cost. I spoke with my banker this past week and he told me that his bank is "cautious' when it comes to loaning money on collector cars. They do not want to get left holding the bag on a collector car that drops in value. With that said, let me repete my investment advice: "This too will pass!" And, who borrows money to buy an investment or collector car? Is that like borrowing money to go to Las Vegas? Just wondering....



Brownie

[Deleted User]

Browniepetersen wrote:

And, who borrows money to buy an investment or collector car? Is that like borrowing money to go to Las Vegas? Just wondering....



Brownie

I've known quite a few people that have donw that, actually. For both things.:eek:

Unknown

I wish someone would tell the sellers that the prices of their cars should be dropping! My last two trips to Pomona, and my nightly visits to Craigslist have netted me zip.



Matt is right, everyone with a 60's or 70's car with a Maaco paint job is a "collectors" car, and if I hear one more idiot say "they don't make these any more" I will smack them upside the head! Of course they don't make them anymore, it's not 1967!



Ok, I'm done "venting". I need to go on Craigslist.



Terry

Unknown

52 kahuna wrote:

I wish someone would tell the sellers that the prices of their cars should be dropping! My last two trips to Pomona, and my nightly visits to Craigslist have netted me zip.



Matt is right, everyone with a 60's or 70's car with a Maaco paint job is a "collectors" car, and if I hear one more idiot say "they don't make these any more" I will smack them upside the head! Of course they don't make them anymore, it's not 1967!



Ok, I'm done "venting". I need to go on Craigslist.



Terry

What are you looking for Terry ? Ron

[Deleted User]

Lots of sellers out there seem to think their four-door car is the same as a musclecar or a ragtop with a big block, and they are still pricing them as such. Too many people still have the B-J Derangement Syndrome going on. Reality for them will strike when NO one buys their car. I think that ALL cars, regardless of level of restoration and/or desirability, are coming down across the board. Very, very few cars will retain a high price in this market.



Remember the Ferrari prices went through the roof, then crashed dramatically! Mustangs in the late '70s were stupid miney for that time. They crashed, rebounded, and are again crashing. Even hand-built cars such as Duesenbergs and Cords appear to be dropping somewhat...again.



Some of you guys seem to think that the car market is dropping, except of course, for the car you happen to own. Watch the big money at B-J, Mecum, and some of the others this Winter and Spring. I really doubt that there will be more than maybe a haf-dozen cars trading at over a million this year. Most won't hit $250K. The vast majority of the high-dollar cars are no going to be in the range from $25K to maybe $125K. Still high, but more in line with reality.



This is what my crystal ball tells me. Your crystal ball may differ.

[Deleted User]

I went to the Long Beach Car Swapmeet today and drove my 51 Hornet Coupe. I had two guys approach me to sell it before I even parked. I blurted out it's not forsale before I even could think about it. In hind sight and just for fun, I should have seen what price range they were willing to pay.

Unknown

For a while, European buyers were having a shopping spree here and sellers were soaking them whenever possible. In turn, that drove prices to inflated levels. Now that the world economy is on its ear, sales prices are dropping. Sort of like what we're seeing in the housing market.

Unknown

nhp1127 wrote:

I went to the Long Beach Car Swapmeet today and drove my 51 Hornet Coupe. I had two guys approach me to sell it before I even parked. I blurted out it's not forsale before I even could think about it. In hind sight and just for fun, I should have seen what price range they were willing to pay.

In the early ninetys, my partner and I were buying, sprucing up and reselling cars at Pomona Swap. One of the cars that my partner redid especially nice was a 51 Hornet sedan. The car was bright red and arrow straight. One weekend we parked it in the middle of three Cad Convertibles we had redone. One was red, one was white and the other black. We were really selling the Cads and the Hudson was our ride home. During that time Japanese and north European buyers were curising the swap looking for cars to buy and container back to the orient or Europe. Several times that day a person I reckognized as an agent for Japanese buyers came and gazed on the Hudson. About 2 pm he came back and was towing a couple of Japanese fellas. He asked me what will you take for the RED car. To me he was asking about the red Cad. Not so, he did not know the make of the Hudson, but that was what he was asking about. I told him the car was not for sale. He countered, if we buy all four cars what is the total price. My partner spouted off that he would take 50K for all. The agent confired with the Japanese fellas and he said SOLD! My partner about fainted and then realized he had sold his Hudson too! Then he wanted to cry. But the car went with the Cads... a lot of dollars for those cars... very high dollars for the Hudson then too. So, beware what you set as a price... as that may be what someone is interested in paying. We sold quite a few more cars that summer... many to the Japanese.

Still looking for that "cheap 54 Super Wasp Hollywood". Yes I know about the one advertised here....

[Deleted User]

With the economy around the world going to hell, and the dollar going UP, you will see many cars that got exported, bought and shipped back to North America. It's happened before, and it'll happen again.

Unknown

Ron P wrote:

What are you looking for Terry ? Ron

I have been looking for a driver, preferably in the mid 60's to early 70's, but I have looked at just about everything from Studebakers to Corvettes. I think I have been looking for a "look" or an "attitude" in a car rather than a specific car. I like cars that you don't see at every stop light, or ten of at a cruise. Early to mid 60's mid size Buicks always draw my attention, but so do a lot of others. That is what amazes me when I go to Pomona (or elsewhere) and I can't find something that I can get excited about for less than $10K. I'm not looking for a show car, just a driver.



I don't know, maybe I should just dump a few grand into my Hornet and find a power steering unit, fix the defroster (yes, we need those in Socal once in a while) and A/C unit and drive it every day.



Terry

oldhudsons

When the "market" goes down often the sellers will move into "hard" assets, such as collectibles, antiques, paintings, and commodities (you may have noted that oil futures, metals, etc. have zoomed up as the "market", which is nothing but paper, has fallen - oil had corrected somewhat lately as the basic laws of supply & demand began to come into play).

As some of you may recall many of the auction houses touted cars as investments as well as offering financing so you had those who couldn't remember Packards or spell Duesenberg buying them as investments.

Many old car buffs, such as myself, feel the auction companies changed what had been a hobby for many of us into a profitable enterprise for themselves, driving up prices of old cars but selling them to "investers", & in the process, ruining our hobby. I personally won't go to them anymore & consider them a "circus" & if you've ever gone to a big one & see their theatrics, I think you'd agree!~

Unknown

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[Deleted User]

And, some FNG saw an opportunity to spam an ad in...

[Deleted User]

66patrick66 wrote:

And, some FNG saw an opportunity to spam an ad in...

There is always going to be some AW who will try to make a profit on anyones conversation.



I know that one of these days I will find a 49 Brougham that I can buy and drive but until then I'll keep cruising in the Hash. Which by the way was in it's second cruise night a couple of weeks ago and received many favorable comments and managed to end up right next to the DJ booth so lots of exposure. I have to drop the fuel tank when I get it empty as there seems to a leak at the top.



Harry