I stumbled across this photo of Hudson bodies on a transporter

[Deleted User]

So, Life Magazine is opening up their archives of never before seen photos.



This was among them.



Neat huh?

[Deleted User]

A load of Hudsons going from the body plant to the assembly plant via "Federal" express. Great photo.

hudsontech

Even better is the background - it looks like a 36 or 37 just behind (over from ??) the right front fender of the truck.



And if you look beyond that, past the light colored one in front of the 36/37, in the background it looks like one of those Divco vans!!! Could this be one of those elusive 1941 Hudson vans??????? One can only wonder.



Hudsonly,

Alex Burr

Memphis, TN

super-six

Hudson308 wrote:

What a great photo. Where can I get a higher resolution example?

I believe all of the photos that are posted on the Life website are for sale.

[Deleted User]

Hudson308 wrote:

What a great photo. Where can I get a higher resolution example?

Let me see if I can figure out what it was that was entered on the Life site that returned this image. If I can find it, I'll let you know so you can go there and save the high-res version.



Thanks.

Keith

[Deleted User]

here's the direct link to the high res image.

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=trucks+source:life&imgurl=1fbaeec3580edd8e



and another of interest.

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=trucks+source:life&imgurl=81bad786d630f7f2

[Deleted User]

and another with a convertible body!

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=trucks+source:life&imgurl=0ed6c8ed5990ef5d

[Deleted User]

and another.



http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=trucks+source:life&imgurl=352db586ab3bfe3a

[Deleted User]

By the way, these are all listed with a date of May 1951. So, would that put them as 51 models I suppose? I don't imagine that back then the 52's would be in production in May..

Unknown

Thanks for sharing.

History, but also shows some aspects of the bodies that normally is not seen and these are comparible in the same pictures.

[Deleted User]

hudsoncustom wrote:

and another.



http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=trucks+source:life&imgurl=352db586ab3bfe3a

The "Sealtest" milk wagon brings back memories! I remember many a morning awaking to the sound of the milkman removing the empty bottles from the insulated box on the front porch and replacing them with the full ones!



Kevin C.

hudsontech

hudsoncustom wrote:

here's the direct link to the high res image.

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=trucks+source:life&imgurl=1fbaeec3580edd8e



and another of interest.

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=trucks+source:life&imgurl=81bad786d630f7f2

Oh, darn!!! With the enhancement and larger view I can see that what looks like a Divco van stuck in the back is more likely a Brand-X Suburban type carry-all - could be a Chevy Suburban of 1940's era. But what do I know.



Hudsonly,

Alex Burr

Memphis, TN.

[Deleted User]

hudsontech wrote:

Even better is the background - it looks like a 36 or 37 just behind (over from ??) the right front fender of the truck.



And if you look beyond that, past the light colored one in front of the 36/37, in the background it looks like one of those Divco vans!!! Could this be one of those elusive 1941 Hudson vans??????? One can only wonder.



Hudsonly,

Alex Burr

Memphis, TN

Alex, I think if you look closer you will see that those trucks are IH Metro vans.

Clutchguy

Thanks for the photo's,these are really cool :cool::cool: Something of interest?,the CV has an area that looks like it was masked off on the cowl?. The other picture taken from the other direction shows the CV on the very back,looking at the truck from the right side,but not yet past the photographer. Look at the cowl and it appears to be the same??. Maybe they didn't want paint sprayed in but the glass and top are on them?. It also looks like they are Super's,no antenna's and no holes for any side trim? It would be very interesting to find out what point this was in the assembly process?. Thanks again for the posting!!!

SuperDave

Well this kinda puts to rest the legend that the convertibles were originally coupes, that were shunted of the line and done in groups of four, five or six ..depending on who tells the story... These converts look to be randomly included with all body styles. Also there doesn't seem to be any convertible vin number groups. At least not by what I see in the roster. What say you, the keeper of all things convertible, Dave Sollon?

SuperDave

Clutch guy wrote:

Thanks for the photo's,these are really cool :cool::cool: Something of interest?,the CV has an area that looks like it was masked off on the cowl?. The other picture taken from the other direction shows the CV on the very back,looking at the truck from the right side,but not yet past the photographer. Look at the cowl and it appears to be the same??. Maybe they didn't want paint sprayed in but the glass and top are on them?. It also looks like they are Super's,no antenna's and no holes for any side trim? It would be very interesting to find out what point this was in the assembly process?. Thanks again for the posting!!!

Wouldn't the Supers have crank up windows? This one has the hydraulic line showing that goes to the right side. or is that line going to the top cylinder?

mdwhit

Wow! What great pictures!!! My only problem is deciding which one I want to use as background on my computer screen...I guess I will just have to rotate them...such problems...

Jon B

I don't know that these photos disprove the theory of the "shunted coupes". There was a body assembly line over at the Gratiot Ave. plant (which still exists, of course). It's quite possible that at the end of the body panel welding operation (but before the painting process) the completed coupe bodies were pushed off to the side, modified (top cut off, top irons and mechanism and various bracing and reinforcement added), then continued along their way on the line to the painting station. After painting, they were pulled off the regular assemblly line again for addition of the canvas top. Then, along with the rest of the car bodies, there were trucked down the street to Jefferson Avenue for final assembly.

[Deleted User]

mdwhit wrote:

Wow! What great pictures!!! My only problem is deciding which one I want to use as background on my computer screen...I guess I will just have to rotate them...such problems...

HA HA! THAT'S MY PROBLEM TOO. UNFORTUNATELY, IT DOESN'T APPEAR THAT THESE PHOTOS ARE AVAILABLE YET THROUGH LIFE/GOOGLE FOR ORDERING PHOTOGRAPHIC PRINTS YET, SO I'VE SAVED THE HIGH RES VERSION MYSELF SO I CAN HAVE THEM PRINTED.

Unknown

Jon;

Recently I was asked if I had any factory assembly information for Hudson Stepdowns. In response to the question I pulled up all the factory assembly line pictures I had stored in my electronic files. During that review I realized something which had not occured to me before. Each of the bodies was comprised of untized pieces welded together with hang on sheet metal. The coupe construction, like that of the sedan included individual window support side pieces which were welded to the belt line sections. The left and right sections and the windshield header were then integrated by welding the top sheet metal to these pieces. So, as a person who has been involved in assembly line setup and management, I would be hard pressed to believe Hudson would weld on pieces which were then to be cut off to achieve a convertible body.

All of the crash recovery parts books and Chilton Body estimating manuals I own show repair headers for Hudson convertibles. This part is the front windshield piece which is spotwelded to the cowl top. The doors for a Hudson Convertible, Hollywood and coupes are all the same with the exception of the bracing and mounting hardware used to convert to a free mount vent frame. In the past I have seen coupe doors which were converted to convertible replacement doors. All Hudson convertibles from 1948 to 1953 and possibly 1954 have unique rear wheel wells and rear floor reinforcements. Included in all convertibles is a welded in rear compartment divider which is found only in Convertibles and Hollywoods.

Not having true factory documentation assures my comments are pure speculation. But, again the differences are dramatic between the metal super structure of the Convertible and the Coupe. Meerly moving a coupe to side to create a convertible does not make sense to me. Beyond a doubt each of the convertibles included unique parts. The unique parts were not utilzed in a coupe. Replacing the wheel wells to create a convertible is sufficent reason for me to doubt this was the method used to create those bodies.

Possibly someone has the manufacturing instuctions for these unique cars? My speculation is based on what I envision is the economic way to initiate and complete the car bodies on the Hudson assembly line.

MikeWA

Jon B wrote:

I don't know that these photos disprove the theory of the "shunted coupes". There was a body assembly line over at the Gratiot Ave. plant (which still exists, of course). It's quite possible that at the end of the body panel welding operation (but before the painting process) the completed coupe bodies were pushed off to the side, modified (top cut off, top irons and mechanism and various bracing and reinforcement added), then continued along their way on the line to the painting station. After painting, they were pulled off the regular assemblly line again for addition of the canvas top. Then, along with the rest of the car bodies, there were trucked down the street to Jefferson Avenue for final assembly.

The "shunted coupe" theory is even less credible, in light of the side windows needed on the convertible. It would be a tremendous waste of time and resources to cut off the top, add top irons and mechanism, brace and reinforce the frame, and modify the doors and rear quarter for "hardtop" windows. Convertibles had to have been destined as such from the start, IMHO.

RL Chilton

hudsoncustom-



Thank you so much for posting these pics and for the link to the high-res photos, which I, of course, saved. Being a history buff and a Hudson fan makes these priceless, and very intriguing.



The convertible in the picture intrigued me most. I believe I'm in a unique position to offer my opinion on the "shunted coupe" theory, which, I too have heard from varied sources for many years now. I am currently saving a stepdown convertible, in which some of you are aware. My project requires that everything from the top of the frame up gets replaced. This is no small feat, I assure you, and, after spending more than 2000 hrs. of work on the car minutely discerning the smallest of details, the "shunted coupe" theory has a great less merit than my initial ignorance allowed.



I'm aware that when the novice, (meaning me) agrees with the veteran (namely Ken Cates), it is always a little ironic and contrite, but Ken's observations mentioned here, along with the countless conversations he and I have had in the past on this very subject, leaves me with my own "educated guess". It varies very little with what Ken has offered here.



Precisely, that is, that a convertible started out life as a convertible. Likewise, a Hollywood started out life as a Hollywood and same goes for a coupe, or 2- or 4-door sedan.



Some observations: Financially speaking, from a company in the business of generating profit, like Hudson, to literally pull something off of the line and cut pieces off of it and turn it into something else, is the least profitable route one could possibly make. It's simply not cost effective. Large corporations will routinely buy a similar part from a different supplier, simply because it costs .05 cents less, for example. Doesn't sound like much when you need one or five such parts, but when you make the same body for 6 years and so many parts interchange, you very well could be talking about millions of parts. Millions of parts times .05 cents per part is VERY substantial. Cutting the roof off of a coupe and reworking the header and the back deck is just ludicrous. The parts you took off? What sell them back to the foundry and melt them down? Not hardly. Convertible headers were made individually and is a unique part. Sand one down and study it and you will see. Same goes for the many other unique parts involved in a stepdown convertible, namely the rear deck, rear pans, well wall, wheel wells, internal bracing, and rear seat configuration.



Another observation: I think Jon is right in that convertibles started out at the Gratiot plant, same as everything else, was transported to Jefferson for final assembly. Production practices at the time make this a viable and cost-effective method. However, I don't think that a few dozen coupe roofs are outside leaning against the back wall, so to speak. The pictures would make this observation somewhat factual. I cannot believe Hudson would cannibalize one model of car to make another. The cost would simply put the convertible considerably out of the $3500-$4000 MSRP range during the stepdown's heyday. I have seen coupes (and Hollywoods and sedans) that have been made into convertibles, but I assure you, they differ greatly from what originally came from Hudson.



Surely, Frank Spring (or others) who have firsthand knowledge of such things could put this to rest once and for all.



Keep in mind, all of my observations are simply that, no more.

[Deleted User]

I notice the Convertible also has it's door handles installed. Were convertible door handles unique? It would make sence to me that all the unique convertible parts were put on the car prior to transporting it to the final assembly plant...but then again, I really am just speculating.

RL Chilton

hudsoncustom wrote:

I notice the Convertible also has it's door handles installed. Were convertible door handles unique? It would make sence to me that all the unique convertible parts were put on the car prior to transporting it to the final assembly plant...but then again, I really am just speculating.

I guess so are we all. I thought it interesting that so much had been done to the convertible, as well. Why put door handles on when obviously door handles were stored at the final assembly plant? And, no they are not convertible-specific. It could be because the glass and internals were installed on the convertible and it was simply easier to open and close the door while working on it. I also noticed the rear rocker panel was installed as well. Glass, top and hydraulic lines also installed, as pointed out before. Surely the rest of the interior appointments would be done later in the line.



Also, pointed out before, that no "holes" for side trim were noticeable. All base fenders from '48-'53 would be identical (all LWB and SWB), except for mounting holes, which were probably added after the determination of model and year. If you're going to crank out 70,000 Hornets and Commodores for '51, then you wouldn't want 150,000 sets laying around. What would you do with 80,000 sets of extra '51 Hornet fenders in '52 when the trim changed positions? It's very possible holes were added for trim later. That way, towards the end of the production year, a body originally slated for '51 could easily become a '52, which happened frequently.

Clutchguy

"Why put door handles on when obviously door handles " I wonder if it was more convenient to open and close the door. They were probably checking several things on a CV before final assembly. The top of the door post has lead and some bronze filler in it. Also the bottom of the door post right below the courtesy light had lead behind it in the post. I think that made it much more solid against the cast iron bracket located there.They also would have to check the fit of the window to top,just from looking at these photo's.? These photo's are really cool!!:cool:



The door handles were the same for the front doors ,as other models

Clutchguy

Also,no holes for radio antenna's?

Clutchguy

SuperDave]Wouldn't the Supers have crank up windows? This one has the hydraulic line showing that goes to the right side. or is that line going to the top cylinder?



Dave,I believe you could get hydralic on anything,it was all about cost?. The more options you added only made since to buy the next better model? Just a guess?. I have seen some strange optioned cars though.



Something else about the last picture?. Is that rear end assemblies on the truck to the left?,and do they go to these?.

rambos_ride

I read the convert's also added a "Z-Channel" to the inner structure of the side "frame rails" in the area between the cowl reinforcement and the rear reinforcements that were added = kinda sounded like it tied it all together?

Of course you'd probably have to cut one open to see this.

nick s

The early convertibles were definitely made from coupe parts. My 48 has distinct cut and grind marks where the modifications were made as well as other indications that it was factory customized. Later parts were made specificly for the convertibles as obvious signs of rework are missing. Even the later cars would have been built offline due to the extra work/care required though parts would be built which would be more efficient from both the material and labor sides.

frank spring

If you want to see a Hudson Step van in a Hudson photo, take a look a the factory photos in the calendar that came with your wtn a couple weeks ago. At least I think we picked one of those in the background.

RL Chilton

nick s wrote:

The early convertibles were definitely made from coupe parts. My 48 has distinct cut and grind marks where the modifications were made as well as other indications that it was factory customized. Later parts were made specificly for the convertibles as obvious signs of rework are missing. Even the later cars would have been built offline due to the extra work/care required though parts would be built which would be more efficient from both the material and labor sides.

Nick-



I don't doubt that at all with the first convertibles. My knowledge is from studying my examples, which are '52 and are definately NOT former coupes.