37 banjo wheel

Jay_G

I am currently trying to restore my 37 banjo steering wheel. I have made molds for the wheel rim, horn button, plastic window trim pieces for the model 77, and knobs. I have gotten the color correct for the window trim pieces and knobs. The horn button is looking as close as it can get and I am currently perfecting the casting of the steering wheel rim.



Is anyone interested in me casting extra parts? I have two steering wheels that will be complete in the next few weeks. One will go on my 37 and the other I will sell. The steering wheel will be rechromed and complete with a horn button, chrome trim and all the internal parts. My goal is to try and recoupe my material costs.



let me know if there is any interest.



Jay

Geoff

Jay, what is the diameter of the wheel? I am currently doing up a '36 H8, and the wheel rim has disintegrated. Perhaps the mold will work for that? The centre is fine, but is different from the '37, being keyed to the column, rather than splined.

Geoff.

37 CTS

Hello Jay G.,

I would be very interested in a steering wheel for my 1937 Hudson 8 model 77.

Contact me with a PM with details and I will respond.

I will be getting some white gloves to use when driving

Thank you

Jon B

I'd be curious to know about what sort of plastic you'll be using? As you know, the original would be a sort of speckled, variegated, "marbellized" plastic. Some people simply attempt to paint this over a white (or other color) wheel, but of course that can rub out with use. You may know that Pearlcraft in Austrialia has pretty faithfully duplicated the original plastic for these things, but the cost is substantial (though probably fair) and it's a long way to ship a wheel.

Unknown

Li Have Seen The Repro Horn Button And Window Pieces That Jay Made And They Look Great. A Lot Of Credit Due For His Efforts, Bill Albright

Richard E.

The '36 wheel has sets of 3 spokes, the '37 steering wheel has sets of 4 spokes, it is a different wheel. I am currently emailing back and forth with Pearlcraft in Australia about doing my '36T wheel. It was a good deal until they realized that I have a broken spoke and it has gotten more expensive! We are still negotiating and I haven't sent it yet.

ArkieJazz

I have a restored '37 which I have always wanted to finish off with a banjo wheel. Please count me in. Contact me by pm or email and I will respond

Jay_G

I am using a polyester resin to cast the wheel and the color will go all the way through. The horn button and the rim will be marbleized. A solid color is so much easier. In fact if these pieces were a solid color I would be done. The problem with the marbleized is not the colors but keeping them from blending to much into a new color.



As for the rim size I will measure it and the diameter of the steel rim. that is also a limiting factor.



I tried contacting the guys down under but never got a response and given what they were going to charge I figured I could screw up a number of times and still come out a head.



Jay

Geoff

The '36 wheel is 17" across. the centre button is cream coloured. If you can do it, I'll send it over. The '36 wheel has only three wires in each spoke.

Geoff.

[Deleted User]

Are you producing headlight, windshield wiper, heater and starter button knobs for 37? If so I would like a set.



Thanks

Ron

[Deleted User]

I forgot. I would also like the glove compartment knob if available.



Thanks again



Ron

Jay_G

I don't see a problem with the three spokes because the rubber mold will mold to fit (some what) and I will just plug the holes. I measured the metal rod that is welded to the spokes. the rod diameter is 9/16 of an inch and the diameter of the wheel, outside of the rod to outside of the rod is 17 5/8. maybe a slight bit larger because of the chrome.



Another concern is the width of the spokes where they contact the plastic rim. The reasion I say this is, if you look at the picture you can see the plastic of the rim covering the spokes with a little transition. My concern would be is the transition width close so it is an easy transition for your hands.



Maybe if there is someone in the LA area who has a 36 wheel I can look at I can tell you for sure. The other thing I could do is send you one of my trial cast rims and you could see if it would fit. The color is wacky but no matter. What I did is take a piece of 1/2 tube put three spokes in to hold the tube in place and cast around the tube to be sure everything went well. That way I would not screw up the chromed wheel. I only want to cast that once!



Jay

Jay_G

I forgot about the knobs. I have done the headlight and starter knobs mold and I am working on them. I have not molded the radio or the glove box knobs yet , but I guess I could. The heater knob I am confused about as I do not have that on my dash. So not to sure about that one. There is also the lighter knob. Which would be impossable to mold hollow but I might be able to make a solid one. Also I have not done the wiper knob. That one may be cast on a rod (if i remember right) and may be a bit tricker. but if there is a need I could look at doing that.



The big problem I have run into with the knobs is the formation of little bubbles on the ridges of the knob. My mold is perfect but with out a vacuum to get the small bubbles out it is difficult. But with every new run I learn something. At least I have the colors correct.



Jay

[Deleted User]

The heater knob I currently have is mounted to the bottom of the dash and is an off white. Maybe that is the way they came. When you are happy with the starter and headlight switch knobs I would like to purchase them from you.



Thanks



Ron

[Deleted User]

Does anyone know what color the Terraplane banjo steering wheels were?

Geoff

Jay, on the three spoke '36 wheel, the width across the spokes where they go into the moulding is 13/16". I suspect this is narrower than the five-spoke? Will this be a problem? I can send the wheel over to you when you are ready to cast them.

Geoff.

Richard E.

Jay G. Where are you located? I am in Escondido, CA and I have a '36 banjo wheel that needs restoration. If you are close by, I would be happy to have you look at it.



The color of mine is a molteled blue with white specs. Also, the horn button from the non-banjo wheel is also used on the banjo, at least that is what shows up in the dealer brochure.

Jon B

Do you have an actual lighter knob to make a mold from? They are not constructed like the starter / light / radio knobs, at all, as you may know. They have a strange male thread on them and fit only the very early "pop-out" lighters. Mine doesn't even look like it pops out, I think you have to hold it in and then remove it when the knob melts, indicating it is hot.



I believe the wiper knobs are merely press-fit on the end of the steel shaft (which is serrated to better hold the knob).







Jay G wrote:

I forgot about the knobs. I have done the headlight and starter knobs mold and I am working on them. I have not molded the radio or the glove box knobs yet , but I guess I could. The heater knob I am confused about as I do not have that on my dash. So not to sure about that one. There is also the lighter knob. Which would be impossable to mold hollow but I might be able to make a solid one. Also I have not done the wiper knob. That one may be cast on a rod (if i remember right) and may be a bit tricker. but if there is a need I could look at doing that.



The big problem I have run into with the knobs is the formation of little bubbles on the ridges of the knob. My mold is perfect but with out a vacuum to get the small bubbles out it is difficult. But with every new run I learn something. At least I have the colors correct.



Jay

Jon B

I think the bottom of the dash is indeed the correct place (anyone with a '37 will find a large punched hole there for it, to the right of the steering column). And I think the switch and knob were nondescript, and didn't use the standard "flecked" plastic Hudson design. I salvaged stuff from an old Terraplane once and tried to get the switch off but the nut was on for good, so I don't have it. But I seem to recall that it was brown. The heaters were still considered an afterthought in those days and Frank Spring liked his dashboards symmetrical. No place for that knob in the grand scheme of things, so down it went, out of sight, out of mind...





rmcfhudson wrote:

The heater knob I currently have is mounted to the bottom of the dash and is an off white. Maybe that is the way they came. When you are happy with the starter and headlight switch knobs I would like to purchase them from you.



Thanks



Ron

Jay_G

I am located in La Verne, CA. I do plan on attending the Big 3 swap meet at San Diego at the end of Feb. so maybe there is a chance to meet there. With some luck I should have the wheel finished by then and can drop it off at the Hudson Booth for inspection.



Regarding the lighter, I have two perfect ones I can mold from. One in the arm rest for the back seat and one up front in the dash. You are right they have a large thread that screws into the lighter. I will look into this and the wiper and radio knobs. There is also the ash tray face and the radio face. my ash tray is fine but the radio face is a little warped. It could do in a pinch but would not be the best.



Jay

Jon B

Suppose you got maybe ten people interested in having their old steering wheel rims re-done (with your new plastic). Setting aside all other costs (like having the hub re-chromed, for example, which is a wild card), do you have any idea what the price range would be for you to provide this service, per wheel?



Would you require that each person handle the re-chroming themselves (which could be dicey due to the stainless steel banjo spokes which may need to be removed and then re-installed later), then send you the wheel for molding of the plastic?



And, when you said the wheel would be "marbellized", did you mean that you'd do it in a solid color (like brown) and then "speckle" it with paint to recreate the flecked look? Or did you mean that you would actually use plastic that has the variegated "look"?



Yet another question: the original plastic cracked and split because (I suspect) of the shrinking and expansion caused by changes in temperature. Might I assume that the newer plastic you intend to use, will survive this change in temperature without cracking? Or is that decomposition something we have to expect because of the iron core of the wheel rim?



Sorry to barrage you with all these questions but I've been inquiring of various companies for the last 30 years on redoing these '37 wheels, so I'm somewhat aware of all the problems inherent in doing this!

Richard E.

Jay,



I will be at the Big 3 Swap Meet on Saturday, 2/28, all day and also at the dinner that the Southwestern Borders Chapter holds that evening. I will bring my '36 banjo wheel with me for your inspection. The Hudson spaces are WB-48 - WB-51, I look forward to seeing the banjo wheel that you have restored.

Jay_G

First to answer a question or two. Geoff, I measured the with of the spokes where they enter the rim and I come up with 15/16 or less. I would say it is looking like the 36 wheel may be close enough to the 37 that the same mold could be used. I can confirm this with Richard's wheel when I am at San Diego at the end of the month.



The plastic will have the marblizing effect all the way through. No painted effect. As for how this plastic holds up? I don't know. You could look on the internet under polyester resin and see what they say. That is the resin I am using.



The trial casting went well this weekend. I cast the front half then the back half to the front and this gives the best results and produces a color texture similar to the orginial rims.



As for casting these things, I do not want to be in the total wheel restoration business. By that I mean fixing spokes and chroming. I will be happy to cast the rim on a chromed restored wheel. Chrome is such a personal thing and everyone's standards are different and yes the 37 wheels are a chalange to chrome so I am told.



I will try and post some pics of my trial pieces so you can see the results. The more I do this the more I think I should write and article for WTN.



Jay

Browniepetersen

QUOTE: As for casting these things, I do not want to be in the total wheel restoration business. By that I mean fixing spokes and chroming. I will be happy to cast the rim on a chromed restored wheel. Chrome is such a personal thing and everyone's standards are different and yes the 37 wheels are a chalange to chrome so I am told.





Just a thought, I work with some folks (Ogden Chrome Plating) here in Northern Utah that have done some really great work for me. They cannot make a purse out of a pigs ear, but they have taken some really tough looking parts and brought them back into show quality. Anyone want to take a gamble on them I would be willing to broker a few wheels to get started for my cost and see if the quality is acceptable. If it is, I would be willing to do the chrome work for ten percent above my cost. They are in the phone book if you want to by pass me, but since they mark up their work 15 percent I can get you a better price. By the way, before they do the work, they tell you what it will look like when done and collect the cash up front. They turn most parts in a week.

Brownie

Jon B

I think you are wise, Jay, to undertake only the reproduction of the plastic rim, and not the re-chroming of the hub. That could be a minefield, since not every chrome plater is good at pot metal restoration (plus we have the additional interference of the stainless steel spokes). If you can do an authentic recreation of the marbellized plastic, that's enough.



When you get underway, are you going to require that everyone send in their wheels at one time, so you can do these all "in one run", or will you arrange things so that you can do them one- or two at a time, over the long haul? This would be good, for it allows for the "word" to get out about your service, and it allows plenty of time for people to get their rims re-chromed and ready for you.



With any luck you can bring a finished example to the National this year, to show people, which may net you a few additional orders. I know you're not doing this as a moneymaking deal, but there's no harm in your getting paid for your trouble. And, the more people who want these things, the better the chance you'll make back your investment and a few bucks extra, to spend on your car!