supercharging the eight

terraplane8

After seeing this video on youtube of a supercharged 327cu" Packard straight 8 rat rod I am thinking of how this could work on the Hudson eight.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaS8TpQsMQQ&feature=channel



He has used a McCulloch VS57 from the '50's which has its own oil supply and doesn't need pressure feed, feeding into two Stromberg carbs modified to take pressure. Max pressure is 5psi with this supercharger which is 2-speed. He's now rebuilding the engine to take 4 carbs and looking for 200rwhp. It does sound good too with his open header system. Judging by the tacho on some of his other videos he's taking it up to about 4,500 rpm.



The Paxton SN60 is similar in design (self-contained oil supply) and more modern with parts easier to come by.



The Hudson has quite a bit of space on the left front of the engine. The crank pulley and belt drive would be one of the main issues to resolve.



I wonder whether the Hudson engine is strong enough to take this? I think the Spikins special was supercharged and Brough did supercharge the 212 engine in his later Brough Superiors too (when he lost the right to use the H8 engine) using a Centric blower at 5-6psi. There's a road test of one in the Railton-Brough Superior Brooklands Portfolio Road Test book. The bottom end oil feed may need to be pressurised as Ivan has done if much cornering G-force is anticipated.



There is a good website dedicated to the McCulloch: http://www.vs57.com/



I have a rusty '36 Hudson Eight 64 sedan that I want use in some form of competition and thought that supercharging it would add a bit of interest to the project. I can either use the sedan body stripped out or use just the chassis and build a Railton Light Sports Tourer type body on top. If the latter it would go pretty well with say 175hp pulling 2000 lbs of car, plus driver. I'm not really interested in being constrained to any particular class and thus limited to period modifications so free to do what I want. "Run what you brung" is what I like whether hill-climb, sprint, vintage drag or whatever.



Given that it is difficult to modify the Hudson engine as far as bigger valves and compression are concerned supercharging seems logical. Hudson did say in the late 40's that as soon as 100 octane petrol became available that their 6 and 8 engines could be made to have 9.3:1 compression to suit.



Interested to hear if anyone has experience or has heard anything on this subject.

oldhudsons

Yes, I'd suggest you contact Ivan Zaremba as he's made some interesting modifications to his Railton to fit his racing needs.

Unknown

I think the main factor against this particular modification would be the lack of full-pressure lubrication in the lower-end.

oldhudsons

I believe Ivan's engine has insert bearings & full pressure lubrication.

rambos_ride

Rudy Bennett has done this with the Kaiser Supercharger

http://www.classiccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8552&highlight=supercharger+blower

terraplane8

I suspect the need for full-pressure lube of the crank is to do with G-force in cornering. It was said back in the day somewhere I have read that the dippers could generate as much effective pressure into the bearings as an oil pump. But of course they need to have oil present in the tray to scoop up, not held away against the side of the block by cornering forces.



Look forward to hearing from Ivan as to how his system works and the reason as to why it is required.

ESSX28-1

terraplane8 wrote:

I suspect the need for full-pressure lube of the crank is to do with G-force in cornering. It was said back in the day somewhere I have read that the dippers could generate as much effective pressure into the bearings as an oil pump. But of course they need to have oil present in the tray to scoop up, not held away against the side of the block by cornering forces.



Look forward to hearing from Ivan as to how his system works and the reason as to why it is required.

I've been told that the Essex engine generates approx 60 psi oil pressure through the dipper, but as I've just blown a big end at less than 1000 miles on a completely recon-ed engine now showing white metal attached to the trough even though there was plenty of oil in it when the sump was removed, I agree that something to always keep oil in the trough center is required. Had there been oil present when the bearing went I doubt the white metal would have been so well attached to the trough wall. I was still "running in" this engine so was neither speeding or cornering hard although I'd just driven for 5 hours straight with only one brief gas stop!!!

terraplane8

Sorry to hear about that Dave, a discouraging thing to happen, be interesting to know the cause of this failure too.



At least one H8 oiling system I have heard of used an oilpump and external fittings drilled through the block wall to squirt oil into the dippers as they came round. So it wasn't full pressure as in a drilled and pressure-fed crank, but ensured oil always got into the dippers no matter what.

[Deleted User]

Lack of lubrication to the bearings of the splasher engines was a real problem when stock car racing was the rage in the late 1940's and 1950's here in Illinois. The guys in the know always filled the oil pan until the sub pan was completely covered. The engines were completely reliable then. On July 7, 1951, at the Peoria Speedway, a 26-hour stock car race was held. Don Dunphee was the winner in his 1938 Hudson 6. If I recall correctly, only six or so cars finished, most of them Hudsons or Terraplanes. There was one Plymouth or Dodge still running. Fords dropped out one-by-one due to overheating, for the most part. We all crowded around Dunphee's car after it had run non-stop for the 26 hours, and it idled as though he had just warmed it up for a drive. Splasher bearings held up, but you had to get oil to them by overfilling or you were SOL!

Unknown

oldhudsons wrote:

I believe Ivan's engine has insert bearings & full pressure lubrication.

I bow to Ivan's knowledge in all things mechanical,unless Walt is around!

oldhudsons

yorg - Walt would know more about the general "nuts & bolts" than Ivan whereas Ivan would know a lot more about getting performance out of a Hudson, esp. an 8.

In addition to his Railton he also has a '51 H cp. "look alike" '50s Hornet race car - he campaigns both in vintage sports car races, esp. at Laguna Seca. He has several other Hudsons inc. a '33 T8, a stepdown conv., & I'm not sure what else as of right now.

Ivan is part owner of a co. that specializes in the restoration of pre-WW 2 Gran Prix race cars.

Unknown

oldhudsons wrote:

Ivan is part owner of a co. that specializes in the restoration of pre-WW 2 Gran Prix race cars.

I know,he gave us all a tour.

I'm lucky enough to belong to the same chapter as both gentlemen,when they talk,I listen.

oldhudsons

OK, had no idea where you were.

I think Ivan is a great guy but busy as hell!