Metering Rod Setting

[Deleted User]

37 Terraplane#2 wrote:

----TRANSLATION = "Don't tell me I can't do that " --figured you was like that. BUD

Yes, I am like that.



Its Okay. I'll just keep on doing my own thing. I've been happy with the results thus far.



Sure isn't the first time I've run across that attitude.



Mark

Unknown

`Hudsonator wrote:

Yes, I am like that.



Its Okay. I'll just keep on doing my own thing. I've been happy with the results thus far.



Sure isn't the first time I've run across that attitude.



Mark

Been rideing in Hudson built cars for 80 + years. Driveing and repairing them almost 70. Dont know how I managed without all this knowledge and special stuff or how so many Hudsons have been kept on the roads for the past 100 years.

Unknown

Billy K.TN. wrote:

Been rideing in Hudson built cars for 80 + years. Driveing and repairing them almost 70. Dont know how I managed without all this knowledge and special stuff or how so many Hudsons have been kept on the roads for the past 100 years.

--- And I'll bet you came up with a lot of new and better ways to do things, in fact that is exactly what HUDSON did, but that doesn't mean it's the end of inovation, there's allways room for improvements. ---BUD

Unknown

Bud How right you are. We old country boys had to do with what was handy.

Park_W

`Hudsonator wrote:

Reading Park's posts, I'd be more inclined to think his springs have gotten weak and causing the rods to raise at such a low vacuum point as to make the carbs seem lean. Mark

Hudsonator, I have to disagree. At cruise conditions, anything less than a pretty heavy throttle position (i.e., low vacuum), the rods are going to be pulled down and sitting on the tab that mechanically determines their position. If that position is too low, the mixture is going to be leaner than intended, period. No "seeming" about it.

[Deleted User]

That's alot clearer Park, and I'd have to agree with you. I've had the opposite problem, just fine in cruise but leaning out on a hard/prolonged pull - which was the spring getting too weak and keeping the rods down too long.



I want to make one thing real clear - I have alot of respect for you guys and what you know. Particularly Mr Kemp. I also know that the fuels we have now, aren't the same as when the "book" was written. Hence, the "book" settings are a dang good guide, but not contemporary. Throw in worn jets and rods, and it can get really aggravating.



I'd be more inclined to find a good, consistent spot on the rod that is not worn, up from the desired spot (probably where its already worn flat) as dictated by the "book" and set my rod lower than recommended. Then drill out the jet until I had the A/F ratio I wanted in cruise position and let the richer worn spot come into play under high load.



The rods are the dang wildcard here. I've never seen any two worn the exact same. But, they're always worn some, to the point of never finding that perfect nirvana we all would like to have. So, we do the best we can and get by. And get by pretty good if you apply some common sense to a modification of the "book" value. I'd really hope to adapt the newer rods somehow and avoid the whole "worn" problem.



I wouldn't worry so much about that gauge either. Nothing the rat-tail off a vernier/dial/digital caliper wouldn't replace if you measured from the hanger to the jet and knew what the relationship was supposed to be - or what you wanted it to be.



I'm every bit the perfectionist any of you are when it comes to how stuff runs. To the tune of plunking down a pile of hard cash for a digital A/F meter just to get this kind of stuff right, or as well as can be. I only have the best of intentions at heart here guys.



Mark

Park_W

Mark, I certainly agree that just setting the rods to the factory spec doesn't automatically say it's right for today, whether because of wear or different fuel characteristics. Too bad some of the fancy F/A measuring devices in the states with required emission tests can't be used on these older critters, because of local government policy or whatever. Ideally, one should be able to go into 'most any good shop and have them take a ride with you with the sensor up the tailpipe and the meter in the cockpit. But that's not the case.

[Deleted User]

Its taken a while for the technology to "downsize", but cockpit capable A/F meters are out there. The one I have coming (hopefully tomorrow) has its own battery source (big help for us 6v die-hards) and 12' of cable. Its a dual channel, so I should be able to read both header outlets and get an accurate look at what's going on. If I ever intend on a good installation of the McCulloch supercharger - I'd better know what the carb is doing. I do not want to burn my Hudson down on lean boost.



The hand held A/F meters use automotive O2 sensors. You can get a narrow band O2 reader pretty cheap, around 150-200 bucks. The wideband O2 sensor readers are higher in the 300-400 range. The prices I gave include the sensors and the reader. Not a bad deal considering how much gas costs and how much time goes into "tuning by the seat of your pants". I will have to weld an O2 sensor bung into the tailpipe.



I opted for the wide band sensor, because I run antique gas tractors on the farm and want to get them "right" as well. Gas is too high to waste and I'm not as comfortable cranking the load screws on them as I once was - I don't want any more fuel than is necessary blowing through. Judging by the price and rarity of some of these specialized gauges, the price of the A/F meter doesn't seem so bad.



You know where the meter will be - and we are in the same neck of the woods. Maybe I'll mail you a bung ahead of the Pigeon Forge meet and be ready for a ride in October?



Mark

Unknown

This is great guys,and the point is being well made. Hudsons are great cars, BUT, a lot has been learned since they were built and there has NEVER been a car or component that could not be improved . With all respect to the old guys we rely on , there needs to be an open mind to the inovaters that spend so much time and $$$ searching for better ways and be glad they are here to share them with us . ---=BUD

Park_W

One thing this ol' guy learned years ago is not to get stuck on a single, traditional way of going about something. There are a lot of clever guys (and gals) in this hobby. Mark or others, are you aware of a currently available rpm/dwell meter that'll work (read properly) on 6v positive ground? My little old internal battery-powered one died recently, and so far I've not found a replacement. My Sears 12v analyzer reads some parameters properly with the application of 12v, but not dwell or rpm if the car is positive ground.

[Deleted User]

37 Terraplane#2 wrote:

This is great guys,and the point is being well made. Hudsons are great cars, BUT, a lot has been learned since they were built and there has NEVER been a car or component that could not be improved . With all respect to the old guys we rely on , there needs to be an open mind to the inovaters that spend so much time and $$$ searching for better ways and be glad they are here to share them with us . ---=BUD

Walt here; Saturday I have an appointment to take my Hornet to a state run SMOG CENTER, CA, as the owner wants to run it through to see how my engine reads. I'll post the results.

[Deleted User]

I have a correction to make.



My fancy A/F meter - requires a 12v cigarette lighter/power port.



Looks like I'll be tunin' n' crusin' with a motorcycle battery in the passenger floorboard.



So, beware - self contained these days means you can plug it into your car's interior cigarette lighter. IF - you are 12 v negative ground.



Mark

ski4life65

Essex4 wrote:

Hi Park,



Here is a scan of the metering rod gauge. The WA 1, WDO, & WDG gauges are the same basic shape, "Only the lengths have been changed to protect the innocent". Oh sorry, been listening to too many old Dragnet radio shows on the satellite radio lately. LOL! The gauge is made of aluminum stock that is 1/16" thick. Laying it on a steel scale ruler, the Length from the tip of the point to the "Step" is just a human hair width less than 2 9/16". That's as close as I can get today, as I don't have a verier caliper on hand to be more exact. Hope this may help.

I bought a Carter tool kit from a guy on Craigslist and it came with an extra T109-102 and T109-113. If anyone wants to buy the extras I will sell for $25 each postage included. First to respond gets them. Send PM, email or call. My info is in the roster.



Don Crane