Is two post hoist safe for my Convertible?
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I have been contemplating the purchase of a quality auto hoist for my shop, and have been eyeing the offerings from Bend Pak as a likely choice.
Since space is limited in the shop, I am trying to choose a unit that will offer as much room as possible to work under the car while its up on the hoist, as well as take up as little space as possible when not in use.
A four post unit offers some advantages over a two poster, such as the ability to use it as a storage unit for two cars (one above the other), but since the car is still sitting on its wheels while up on the hoist, it makes doing brake work,or tire and wheel removal a little more difficult to do without a bridge jack or some other secondary device to take the weight off whichever wheel(s) one is working on at any given time. On top of that, of course the ramps, and rails get in the way a bit while working on the rocker panels and wheel well areas.
For these reasons, I was leaning towards a two post hoist for awhile, but it began to dawn on me that this may not be the best way to lift my convertibles, due to the fact that there is very little holding the body halves together above the rocker panels on a convertible, other than the door latches !!! As we all know, a Hudson is a basically "frameless" car, and a convertible lacks most of the support that the roof provides on a coupe or sedan for example. Yes, the top will provide some end-to-end tension topsides, --- but is this a really good idea to hang all that body weight off each end of a central lifting point on a convertible, especially if the top is down ??
On the ground, the wheels support the weight well out towards the ends of the car, and everything is engineered to be supported at these four extremities, the same as it would be if the car were on a four post hoist, but what about the two-poster???
Anyone care to comment on this before I order-up the new hoist??
silverone.
www.hudsoncollector.com
Since space is limited in the shop, I am trying to choose a unit that will offer as much room as possible to work under the car while its up on the hoist, as well as take up as little space as possible when not in use.
A four post unit offers some advantages over a two poster, such as the ability to use it as a storage unit for two cars (one above the other), but since the car is still sitting on its wheels while up on the hoist, it makes doing brake work,or tire and wheel removal a little more difficult to do without a bridge jack or some other secondary device to take the weight off whichever wheel(s) one is working on at any given time. On top of that, of course the ramps, and rails get in the way a bit while working on the rocker panels and wheel well areas.
For these reasons, I was leaning towards a two post hoist for awhile, but it began to dawn on me that this may not be the best way to lift my convertibles, due to the fact that there is very little holding the body halves together above the rocker panels on a convertible, other than the door latches !!! As we all know, a Hudson is a basically "frameless" car, and a convertible lacks most of the support that the roof provides on a coupe or sedan for example. Yes, the top will provide some end-to-end tension topsides, --- but is this a really good idea to hang all that body weight off each end of a central lifting point on a convertible, especially if the top is down ??
On the ground, the wheels support the weight well out towards the ends of the car, and everything is engineered to be supported at these four extremities, the same as it would be if the car were on a four post hoist, but what about the two-poster???
Anyone care to comment on this before I order-up the new hoist??
silverone.
www.hudsoncollector.com
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Comments
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If the 2-post is anchored securely and correctly, with enogh concrete under the posts to anchor to safely, you shouldn't have a problem. Shops use them all the time. Proper preparation is the key to everything. They've been lifting unibody cars (including convertibles) with them for years. Engage the brain before lifting the car, and you'll be fine.0
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The two post lift's arms should reach back to your spring perches in back and the torque boxes in front making it a fully supported lift. There should be no issues with this type of hoist. The arms do get in the way for working on rocker panels though.
I've got a four post lift and yes, the ramps get in the way sometimes when a car is not on it but working on rockers and the lower portion of the car is easy. Best for that low body work for this aging body.
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Love my 2-post, No issues with my 49, its more solid than my 86 Buick
Grand National (and it has a frame). Perfect for any kind of mechanical work,
but I'll give you that a 4-post is better for bodywork and over/under parking.
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Lets see if I can make that any larger...
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Stepdown convertibles were the heaviest stepdown models produced regardless of year of manufacture.
The reason for this is mostly 2 fold - 1) the electric/hydraulic system for the top and windows and most importantly 2) added structural re-inforcements.
On the Converts Hudson added a special "Z-member" to the lower frame rails from the cowl back to to the rear wheel well. An additional wide member was added to the to connect the rear wheelhousing to door lock pillar and was anchored to the base frame with a heavy iron casting. The rear bulkhead was welded to the wheelhousing and floor and to an additional member extending around the beltline to the doors. There were other structural re-inforcements made and the window frame was also re-inforced.
I would think that if you have a serious flexing issue with one of these stepdown converts - you probably have serious rust issues that have weakened the 'unibody' frame and/or the extra structural re-inforcements. If you have issues with the doors sagging - that is typically a hinge problem or the hinge mounting points on the doors are weakend or cracked.
That being said - you should be able to just choose the lift that works best for your price range and the anticipated work you need to do on the car.
In my dream car garage I would have 2 lifts - 1-4 poster and 1 of the older style air/hydraulic center lift units. Then you can have the best of both worlds...
My .02
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my dream garage would have several stepdown convertibles sitting in it...
I would probably not even think about a lift at that point...
But seriously, I would exercise caution, especially if there is any potential that the structural integrity of the convertible was comprimised at any point in it's life, (meaning RUST) putting it on any lift, that does not support a car at the wheels, unless the structural issues are addressed first.
All in all, wow, a lift would be a nice addition to any garage...0 -
4 post is what u need. Much better buy.0
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On a 2 post lift you still have four lifting points and I dont see a problem unless you plan to store it on the lift. I love ours! I can't remember the company name, I can look it up, but ours was under $2000.00 shipping included!
http://groups.msn.com/HudsonEssexTerraplaneBulletinBoard/hudsonspeedparts.msnw?Page=Last0 -
A friend of mine (used to live down the street) had a two post in his garage and I used it all the time.....works great! In fact looked much like the one in TwinH's pics. He also had a chain hoist on a front-to-back and side-to-side beam you could move an entire body around most of the shop. You could put 7 F350 duallies inside it! I'm really sad he moved to another part of town and now has regular garages! I would go with the 2 post.
Jay0 -
I've been reading this debate and figured I'd chime in. I have a 2 post and it is the way to go if you have a good solid foundation, and enough overhead, ......and enough money. I bought "The Whip" 10,000 lb lift after seeing a couple in action. They are made in Texas by real Texicans and are quality units. About $3K installed.
Good Luck
Steve0 -
Another advantage is it takes up less floor space. A four-post takes up all of that square footage, period, regardless if it's in the air or not. A two-poster can be lifted with or without a car and the entire floor space underneath can be utilized as needed, except, of course, for where the posts are.0
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For a two post hoist, what is the minimum ceiling height that is required? I need to make sure my new garage plans allow enough height.0
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Ideally, you need between 13'-14' of ceiling height to allow the car to go up fully, and allow you to stand upright under the car. A 12' ceiling works, but you'll have to be cautious lifting vans and pickups, and large pre-war cars because of their height.0
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My finished ceiling height is 11'11" and the installer bet me $5 that the plugs on
the tops of the cylinders were going to hit the ceiling. I Won, no marks but you
probably couldn't get a feeler guage in there. IMO the biggest consideration is
where the garage door ends up in the "up" position. I have 10'x10' doors and it
gets close sometimes. I'm 6'1" and can walk anywhere under the car except for
the rear axle and lift arms and even then don't have to duck much. After a
lifetime of laying on my back with my stuff on jackstands I can't imagine going
back. The 10,000 lb Rotary that you see in my pics was just over $3,000 with
tax and installation.I looked at plenty of under $2000 lifts and just figured my
life was worth the extra $1K.0 -
12' is considered the std height needed for a clear floor twin post, base frame lifts can get away with less but I'm not sure if you can get them anymore. Also make sure you have good concrete. No lift is right for every job, but the twin post above ground lift is the most versatile IMO. The lift business is so competitive now that you can't afford not to buy a premium lift. 15 years ago 7000lb Rotarys were over $40000
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And watch out for the cheap Chinese crap, it'll kill you!0
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You sure hit it right on there Twin H !! One accident and that thousand bucks a Guy thinks he saved dissapears real quick at the funeral home !! I've been hearing lots of horror stories about inferior quality in some of these lifts. The one dipicted by smcamus looks like a really good choice though --- anyone else care to recommend their choice if they were goning to buy one, or have already done so???
silverone0 -
Before you catagorize all inexpensive lits as "crap" you might want to go out and look at them. they use the same components as other lifts, just not always a name brand. I have worked with equipment and hydraulics for over 15 years and there are a lot of the exepensive lifts that are just as good as the "premium" lifts! your just not paying for the name.0
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I take it you sell lifts??? Notice I mentioned nothing about price, but that usually plays into it, as does the quality element. In other words, you get what you pay for. :eek: Personally, I don't want the thing crashing on my head for the sake of saving a few dollars! I've seen enough of the Chinese junk passing for tools at places like Harbor Freight that I know cheap when I see it. Cheap is not where you want to go when 5,000 pounds of car is over your head!0
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No I don't sell any lifts. Do you? I have bought a couple and I have seen a lot of them in researching them for purchase. If you look at some of the independant outfits they sell lifts built with the same parts as the more expensive lifts but are less expensive. Thats not to say there are not cheaply made lifts out there, but a good lift can be had at a good price now days. If a man does his research lifts are not a complicated machine they all use the same basic design and components. Pay attention to the locks and fit and finish and you can get a 9000lb lift that is well built for $2000.00 or less. Don't take it personal I am just trying to help some people out with the research I have done in the past. Knowledge is power.0
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Another good point - the Chinese have copied good tools, machinery, etc, and made good physical copies that are pure crap. A shiny turd is still a turd. The fact that there are good lifts out there for around $2,250 also means there's junk copies for the same price. The cheaper the price, the more cautious you have to be.0
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One of my criteria was(Is this company gonna be around in 20 years) Autolifters
that used to advertise in Hemmings went belly-up this year I believe...0 -
Been awhile, but for some of the smaller companys you could become a distributor with good credit and a starting order of 3 lifts, so if you had a couple buddies...0
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