What is wrong with hot rodding an Essex
Comments
-
Maybe we should get a list going of contributors that don't have an issue with rodding Hudsons and can exchange info and tricks of the trade with each other? Seems one member is qouted as saying "but I make it my business not to assist such endeavours" (rodding).
Personally, I'm getting old on this topic (and I helped it along in a prior thread!) as its the same old arguments on both sides. Nobody is going to change anybody's minds on this issue. So maybe we can get constructive and help each other with our modifications? I did some research on the new Hemi's and boy are they impressive, especially the one out of the 300 and Magnum. I'ld like one of those, but the ones I've seen are a little more than twice the price of an LT1 and trans (they haven't been around long enough yet). I want to stick with the late model engines for their economy and performance. Maybe in my next engine morphification a late Hemi?.............:-)
Jay0 -
Thanks Jay. Good wisdom !! Why not have a category for modified Hudsons? It's called compromise. I would enjoy reading whats going on in both arenas.
Chaz0 -
Hemiessex, if you do build a rod from your '28 and put that 392 HEMI in it, I definitely want to see that!!! There is another '28; a 4-dr Super Six that I sold for a friend locally that went to the Florida panhandle in 2003. It was a complete, disassembled car that had sat like that for nearly 20 years. The new owner put a 392 in it, as well, and completed the car in less than one year! Unfortunately, I have yet to see any pics of it, but it came out sweet, from what I understand. Good platforms are out there!0
-
Honestly guys, I am not in the least bit, angry, being petty or thinking any less of anyone of you who replied. I started the thread remember. I could never sell the car, it is part of the family, it was bought the year I was born, I know every nut and bolt on the chassis, I just think it is time the old girl morphed into something different. Something that suits the owners purpose. Remember I have driven it restored since I was old enough to drive. I know what an original Essex is like to drive, I have trophys on the shelf it won at the CNE car show in Toronto, but now I think it is time to experience the other side of the car hobby. The body is straight and clean and I will not have to spend thousands repairing it. I am not going to chop the top, it will be a full fendered resto rod. Chassis and drivetrain will be different but to me it is no different than adding AC, power steering, cruise, and aftermarket radios to restos. It will be built to suit the driving that I want to do with it. Hot Rod Power Tour anyone?0
-
Yeah, how do you get one set-up?
Jay0 -
I'm in. How do you post a pic on this thing? I would like to post a pic of the old girl for you guys to see. Anybody??? Jay, I am going to Las Vegas to SEMA on Saturday. There is a company that specializes on the new hemi, them make all the computer harnesses etc for swaps like you are contemplating. Want me to quiz them down and give you a report?? Be glad to help a fellow car guy. Besides I love to gab about cars. I do custom interiors (family business) and I talk and see car guys daily. Me and a bud are rescuing old cars from the wilds of Northern BC and trying to sell them to purpetuate our hobby. Found a 47 Hudson 4 door in a field a few weeks ago. Pretty complete car. No motor or trans. Just bought a 41 stude Commander. Very solid runs well. Found a 51 chevy convert behind a barn. Rough but complete. Great custom project. Just would like to get one finished!!! Give me a list of what cars you guys are looking for. I just might know where some are.0
-
Yeah Steve, find out what you can, though seriously I'm not sure I can go with the Hemi right now.......its twice the money and I have a toddler at home, so I need to stretch my customs budget. Ask them how long before they get less expensive! :-)Actually I'm going to Las Vegas on the 3rd of Nov. for a B-Day party for one of my clients who's company owns and manages casino in Las Vegas and elsewheres. Sorry we won't cross paths, but we'll keep in touch the same.......I love to talk cars as well. Had a few bikes over the years also.......65 BSA (bastard stalled again!) halfed with a rigid frame, 74 Sportster (last of the right-hand shifts) rigid framed with the shifter turned up to hand shift, and a 41 Knuckle (last prewar civilian model) with 18" apehangers on 6" dogbones! Wish I had never let that one go!
Wish I had the room and money to collect a few now, but gotta keep it at one-at-a-time. You know, gotta keep putting cash in the ol' college fund! And we like to travel overseas once a year.....(this year it was Russia and next year its New Zealand (north island)!
When I get this one finished, maybe I'll find the 55 Buick my wife loves, she actually likes the hardtop better than the convertible.
Jay (needing a shot of Vodka!)0 -
Find out about the HEMI harnesses! I found a burned-out '04 HEMI 1500 (engine undamaged, truck caught fire inside, cab is trashed and frame bent!) that the engine and tranny would go great in my '71 D-100 pickup!0
-
Will do. I will report back when I get back. That D-100 with a modern hemi would fly. I am almost positive that they make a complete harness like the ones you can buy for the vortec chevy conversions.
Cheers
Steve0 -
hemiEssex wrote:Honestly guys, I am not in the least bit, angry, being petty or thinking any less of anyone of you who replied. I started the thread remember. I could never sell the car, it is part of the family, it was bought the year I was born, I know every nut and bolt on the chassis, I just think it is time the old girl morphed into something different. Something that suits the owners purpose. Remember I have driven it restored since I was old enough to drive. I know what an original Essex is like to drive, I have trophys on the shelf it won at the CNE car show in Toronto, but now I think it is time to experience the other side of the car hobby. The body is straight and clean and I will not have to spend thousands repairing it. I am not going to chop the top, it will be a full fendered resto rod. Chassis and drivetrain will be different but to me it is no different than adding AC, power steering, cruise, and aftermarket radios to restos. It will be built to suit the driving that I want to do with it. Hot Rod Power Tour anyone?
I've been sitting on the sidelines for this one and thought it was about time to chime in! Many of you common to the Hudson forum already know that my general motto or opinion is "Restore First - Hot Rod Second"
Restore First: depenendant upon vehicle condition, model rarity, and vehicle history (sounds like you meet 2 of these 3 criteria)
Your vehicle is in fact not original since it has had at least 1 major level restoration from your description. If it was all 100% original and had only the blown motor - I'd entertain calling you crazy for wanting to hot rod it!
That being said the year and era of Hudson you have was not built for the modern highspeed roadways of today - where as a Stepdown model in stock condition could still perform and be driveable on todays roads.
Hot Rod Second: You've said that if following through on your rodding plans you would make the parts available to others seeking to restore theirs. I don't even think the diehards can complain much about that!
Another track to Rod the car is to attack the design in such a fashion that the build retains as much of the original parts (frame, interior, steering...?) as possible so that someone could return it to stock or close to it.
I don't know enough about that year of Hudson to know if that is even feasible, but that is the direction I have taken with my 49. Just about all of my mods could be reversed - although they never will be!
So I can understand and mostly agree with you that If you plan on driving this car OFTEN and will keep it in your the family that making a Hot-Rod project out of the car would keep it on the road a couple of days a week for another 40-50 years and make it more enjoyable to drive.
But if you are only going to drive it once in a while and only on nice days - I'd swing my opinion back to that you should restore the one you have and get another Hudson project for a Hot-Rod.
Moneywise - Restore vs. Rod - you could it could end up with it being a wash...but if the steel body is all you are after then you'll be spending thousands of $$ (given your plans outlined) on building her into a street rod. And really - saving a couple of bucks on bodywork by using your steel body will not net you as big of a savings as you might think if you are gutting and replacing all interior, wiring, chassis, suspension, drivetrain and tires and wheels.
Whatever your decision I WILL SEE YOU ON THE HOT ROD POWER TOUR!
(I'm gunning for HRPT 2006 for my 49 - and you?)
*0 -
Steve, can you ask them about average mileage ratings for a 3400lb car? And I've read that they can have a problem with cold air systems due to the fact they measure air into the engine rather than air mass, see what they say about that issue. I would be interested in comparing to the LT1 as this will be my daily driver and long haul car.
Thanks again.......Jay0 -
Go for it, but take a bit of advice from someone who 's been there, That 354 might look neat ,!!BUT!! wait till you try to go around a corner or curvey road, that thing will push and handle like a boat, use a small block anything, but not that heavy butt hemi unless you only want to go straight.Belive me I have been doing this for over 50 years and The 33 T 8 coupe you see in the picture at one time (25 years ago had a 289 Ford in it and handled like a dream and made 2 cross country trips hauling a trailer, now it has a Hudson 8 in it like original and I would not trust it fo 100 miles.0
-
While cars are my passion, I pay my mortgage by owning a piano store. Many piano purists would have been mortified by the 1904 Steinway model O grand piano that I ripped apart and installed a modern electronic player piano system in. I, on the other hand, looked at it as a way to sell a 100 year old piano immediately, instead of waiting for the guy who has been scouring the country for that particular color, year, and style piano, which can take years. Anybody want an 1861 Steinway concert grand in Rosewood finish? I even have a letter from Henry Steinway that it was the first overstrung concert grand Steinway ever built (translation - modern style piano). I'm selling it for half of what some "expert" claims it's worth, yet it's sat here for 2 years. If I put an electronic player system on it, it would sell quickly to some rich guy who can't play a note, but it would ruin the authenticity of the piano. Yet, people who can play the piano don't like it because it doesn't sound as good as modern pianos.
My point is .... I think I read that hemiEssex deals in automotive products as a business, and has several older cars, and would see at them as a commodity. I really enjoy pianos, but for every one antique piano I have in inventory, I'll have the opportunity to buy 10 more in the next year. Because cars don't make me money I can't buy 10 Hudsons this year
Enjoy your Essex how you like, and understand us who are jealous that can do to your car what you want.0 -
Steve,
Try Street & Performance in Mena Arkansas, U.S. phone: (479) 394-5711
Chaz0 -
This is sort of an unrelated topic but mind you nothing personal but are you talking about installing a modern "Hemi" (like 2005) because those "Hemi" engines are not truly Hemi-spherical at all. My buddy who is really engineering minded really get's irritated that Chryseler calls that engine a Hemi when the chambers are not hemi-spherical. He see's it as not truth in advertising of what you are buying and that if anything it's used as a marketing name but the engine should really have a different name.0
-
Aaron, I know its not a true Hemi, I'm just looking at modern v8 technology to have some options to compare like the late model hemi's (or whatever their called), and the chevy LT1. I'm looking at mileage, performance, etc. If I could find one as cheap as a LT1 (with a tranny attached), I would consider it. I don't want an older v8 as they are not good on mileage, and this is to be a daily runner.
Jay0 -
The motor I am using is a 354 cu early hemi. I found it in an air compressor used by a mining company. It was their spare compressor and it only has 385 original hours. Upon investigation I knew it was an industrial hemi but to my surprise it was fitted with automotive style cylinder heads and front timing cover. I think it was built late in 1958-60 and chrylser was just using up inventory. The cylinders and bottom end are like new. Originally it weighed out at 700 lbs , but in conversation with Bob at Hot heads hemi it can be fit with aluminum front cover and water pump, intake manifold and modern ignition. I have custom stainless headers (shorties) Getting rid of the stock cast items (front cover with water pump and fan and cooling jacket, stock intake manifold (it weighed over 50 lbs) and cast iron exhaust will settle her down to the weight of a big block chevy. I have seen more than a few model A's with big blocks and the handling does not seem to be an issue. With all this done, mild street cam, headers and better breathing intake she will get about one horse per cube. The sound of them alone raises the hair up on the back of your neck, mental horsepower I think its called! I think it should push the Essex down the road very respectively and get decent mileage. I am looking into overdrive tranny. I don't think it will be turning very fast and can be run down a bit on the RPMs as it has alot of low end torque. Early hemis are very hot now as anything else mopar is . Sure maybe the new Hemi is not technically a hemi, but they just rolled the 1 millionth one of the manufacturing line and are going to produce 400,000 per year. The prices are definately on the way down and at 345hp stock, light weight and alot of aftermarket parts being available, this should be a very viable option to a SBC. Street and Performance that is the name of the company, thanks for pointing that out guys. Ever buy a copy of OL SKOOL RODS, these guys live the lifestyle and use everything that is old. Some of the babes look okay also.0
-
The new HEMI's are more along the lines of Chrysler Polyspherical head engines from 1953-1967. Indeed, if you take a 392 Poly engine and a 392 HEMI engine, you can swap the heads and intakes from each and again have two running engines. So what if Chrysler's new HEMI engines aren't true HEMI engines??? The fact that Chrysler HAS an engine like that in current production sells the crap out of new cars and trucks! And I want one for my '71 Dodge truck!0
-
Your having seen Model A's with big blocks in them isn't driving them and I have never had any one ever admit that their car did not handle, but you are on the right track as far as reducing weight. It can be done.Just bear in mind that you will be adding possibly several hundred pounds to the front of your car. Believe me it does make a BIG difference. Also I never saw a 392 poly engine, what was it in? I ran these things in the late 50's and early 60's in a AAFD rail. Lots of stories about them.0
-
I am not sure that the poly ever came as big as 392. I know they came as big as 354 (alot of parts manuals list the bottom end internals as 354 poly/hemi) The hemi head on 354 is very easily done. I know what you mean about the extra weight, you make a good point, I am trying to address this as I mentioned with the lightweight engine parts and it will be one of the first questions to some of the suspension experts at SEMA. Would moving the engine back a little further help this?? What is your experience with a heavy engine in a smaller car?? I am not expecting GT like handling, I will just be driving hiways. It is 12 hours to Vancouver from where I live, speed limit is 65 MPH and the car will need to be able to perform under these conditions. Any advice? My mind is set on the hemi, so I need to figure a way to make it work.0
-
Post the engine number so we can find out what industrial motor you have to start with. I would guess you'll need to change the cam and pistons to make it a road motor. Be very wary of aftermarket parts. I recommend you go one part at a time to see if it fits and if it works. Vendors will tell you that parts will work on your application just to clean off the shelves.
Good Luck
Steve0 -
The poly engine was used in the Chrysler Windsor chassis and was a lot smaller. Accually it was a much different engine, even tho the heads would interchange on some engines. No one that I know of ever did this with any real sucess. As far as weight, when I had the small block Ford in my Terraplane and replaced it with the Hudson 8, you cannot belive the change in handling such as push going around corners or changing lanes even with gas shocks and radial tires. Thing called weight bias front to back. Trouble is too many people read too many books about this stuff and create cars that that they cannot drive and lose interest real quick. Ever wonder why the small block Chevy is so popular other than being cheap. It goes in real easy. is compact and reasonably light for the power it puts out. Give you another example, about 22 years ago I put a FE series Ford 390/375 with a C6 in a 52 Ford pickup. That thing went like blazes, but in a straight line only. I hate to say it again, but been there ,done that. Done a lot of engine swaps in 50 plus years.0
-
The 331/354/392 Chrysler engines came in both versions, HEMI and Poly. Head and intake swaps work with all three; i.e. 354 HEMI and Poly, for example.
I won't use a small block Chevy engine...unless I'm working on a Chevy. But then, I might just stick a 500 Cadillac engine in the Chevy (nearly the same weight as the SBC!) just so I don't have to use a SBC...Too much "me-too-ism" with the 350.0 -
Not to knock any selections... but I used to collect and drive 62 Buick Skylarks. Those cars offered an aluminum V8 engine (available in Olds and Pontiacs 61-63 too). The tooling and rights to the engine were sold to Roots motors who first inserted the engine into two seat sports cars like Jensen Healys. Today that very engine with the modern aspiration and computer controls affixed is the heart that throbs under the hood of the ROVERs. Yes a big dollar SUV now is the recipient of this engine. What does that have to do with ESSEX Street rods? The engine is light and responds to all sorts of speed equipment. I had a friend who had one in an airplane and I have seen them as inboard motors for high dollar wooden ski boats. Want power and light weight.. check out the 61-2 Buick Skylarks and Specials or find a donor ROVER ... mucho more bucks.
Good Luck0 -
Sounds like you must have been reading too many books. Sorry, I was there and worked on them in a Chrysler dealership.0
-
I have one sitting in my 88 Range Rover. I think my wife's 2000 Discovery II is a Buick V8 as well. Hers is a 4.0L and mines the 3.5L. Maybe mines just old, but it has alot of low end grunt (which I want) but a dog off the line. Not sure how much weight diff between Essex and a Range Rover.
Jay0 -
Tom, if you want to argue about it, I've been around Chryslers since 1972 at age 12, and have owned over 400 of them. My nephew is restoring a POLY head 392 Chrysler. So, don't get too smug. Just because you've "been around", doesn't mean you've been around them all!0
-
Well being that you were born after they quit manufacturing them and YOUR NEPHEW has one?, You are the man. Go for it., but as I said before what was it originally in and when was it made?.Mean while being as you are an Mopar expert, What was the biggest Chrysler six made?0
-
Tom,
when you had the small block ford in your Terraplane. Were you using the original suspension? Would an updated newer type suspension handle the extra weight of my hemi. Any suggestions, my mind is made up with using an early hemi.
Steve0 -
OK, Tom, the largest Slant Six was the 225. The largest flathead six Chrysler used in its automobiles was 265.5 cubic inches that produced 218 ft/lbs of torque at 1600 RPM. So, at just off idle, this engine produced maximum torque. The largest HEMI straight Six was the Austrailian-built 265, which could be had as a six-pac or a 4-bbl set-up.
Next question.
Oh, and just because I was born after the last old-style HEMI came out, somehow makes me unqualified to comment on them, well, too bad.0
![[Deleted User]](https://openforum.hetclub.org/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- 37K All Categories
- 106 Hudson 1916 - 1929
- 19 Upcoming Events
- 91 Essex Super 6
- 28.6K HUDSON
- 560 "How To" - Skills, mechanical and other wise
- 993 Street Rods
- 150 American Motors
- 174 The Flathead Forum
- 49 Manuals, etc,.
- 78 Hudson 8
- 44 FORUM - Instructions and Tips on using the forum
- 2.8K CLASSIFIEDS
- 599 Vehicles
- 2.1K Parts & Pieces
- 77 Literature & Memorabilia
- Hudson 1916 - 1929 Yahoo Groups Archived Photos