6volt or12

kamzack
kamzack Senior Contributor
edited November -1 in HUDSON
I'm close to ordering a wire harness for a 50 Commodore 8. Won't be a show car. but a nice driver, so authenticity isn't an issue. Generator or alternator with 12 volts. One wire alternator or external regualtor type. Can starter be modified so housing doesn't break as a result of drive gear being slammed to the ring? What pitfalls with 12 volts?

Thanks in advance,

Kim

Comments

  • SuperDave
    SuperDave Senior Contributor
    Kim,

    There have been a couple of threads recently about the ring gear and starter voltages. You might do a search .. My recommendations, based on experience is... Convert the starter to 12 volts, use a GM alternator and wire it to use your idiot light on the dash. It's very easy to do. Park Waldrop has posted the schematic in various places and I have found instructions enclosed with several alternators I have bought. Why pay extra for a one wire alternator when you can have the real thing for less? You don't have to rev the engine to activate it either. As far as the instruments are concerned I have not found any difference in the function between 6 and 12. The heater motor and radio will need a resistor. Use the 6 volt wireing, It's more thsn adaquate for the job. Pay attention to good ground returns.

    I think Ken in Texas also has some conversion info on his site as well.

    Good luck,

    Dave
  • bob ward
    bob ward Senior Contributor
    Definitely have your starter rewound for 12V. The 6V starter motor itself survives OK on 12V, but the pinion certainly slams real hard into the ring gear.



    I had the instrument panel out of my 12V 53 recently, and while I was at it I made and installed an electronic 12V to 5V regulator to feed the fuel gauge and temperature gauge as a replacement for the old mechanical 6V regulator.



    These devices can be made to handle much larger loads, I'm thinking of fan motors and overdrive solenoids here.



    The Hudson regulator

    IMG_0010_3.jpg



    A handful of off the shelf components, plus a small piece of aluminium to act as a mounting block

    IMG_0004.jpg



    The new one in place. I made the mounting block to fit the old screw holes

    IMG_0019_5.jpg



    IMG_0012_3.jpg
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Bob:

    Thanks for sending the pictures and showing the how to. How about a wiring schematic and a list of components? That is a really neat way to get the job done. Thanks for sending and sharing with us. Bob P.
  • 50C8DAN
    50C8DAN Senior Contributor
    A few years ago I would have probably agreed with the switch to 12V but I took the chance and stayed with 6V on my '50C8 and have not had one bit of trouble. The only reason I would think about switching is if I wanted to add some 12V accessories. I have been pleasantly surprised that all has worked well and no battery or other issues. A friend down the road has a '49 C8 as a daily driver and is also still 6V.
  • jjbubaboy
    jjbubaboy Senior Contributor
    Hi,

    I too have stayed with 6 volts and am very happy.

    I am going to add an additional 'pusher' cooling fan from Scotts fans and my question is: anyone have a lead on a 6v relay? Can I use a 12v relay for the fan?

    Thanks,

    Jeff
  • Park_W
    Park_W Senior Contributor
    Dany Spring (K-Gap) was working with a supplier for a 6v version of the common little cube relays with a mounting tab built in. Last I heard they were waiting for shipment from the mfr.
  • Browniepetersen
    Browniepetersen Senior Contributor
    I've had both. 6V and 12V. I think much to much is made out of the benefits of converting to 12V. As for me, the more cars I build the greater respect that I have for the engineers and designers that built them the first time. I will not convert another one--just not worth it for me.
  • RonS
    RonS Senior Contributor
    buba, Try Fifth Ave Internet Garage in Clay Center, Ks. He sells the whole kit.
  • jjbubaboy
    jjbubaboy Senior Contributor
    Thanks, Ron!

    Thats a great site.



    Jeff
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    I got my 6 volt positive ground alternator from these guys http://www.qualitypowerauto.com

    $138.82 including tax and shipping. It works great.



    Jim G
  • faustmb
    faustmb Senior Contributor
    Jim G wrote:
    I got my 6 volt positive ground alternator from these guys http://www.qualitypowerauto.com

    $138.82 including tax and shipping. It works great.



    Jim G



    I'm happy with the original 6 system in my 50. The item above looks like the ticket. The benefits of an alternator without all of the work of conversion. If I had to rewire from scratch, I might do a 12V conversion.
  • Ol racer
    Ol racer Senior Contributor
    bob ward wrote:
    Definitely have your starter rewound for 12V. The 6V starter motor itself survives OK on 12V, but the pinion certainly slams real hard into the ring gear.



    I had the instrument panel out of my 12V 53 recently, and while I was at it I made and installed an electronic 12V to 5V regulator to feed the fuel gauge and temperature gauge as a replacement for the old mechanical 6V regulator.



    These devices can be made to handle much larger loads, I'm thinking of fan motors and overdrive solenoids here.



    The Hudson regulator

    IMG_0010_3.jpg



    A handful of off the shelf components, plus a small piece of aluminium to act as a mounting block

    IMG_0004.jpg



    The new one in place. I made the mounting block to fit the old screw holes

    IMG_0019_5.jpg



    IMG_0012_3.jpg



    FYI

    Pictured is a really nice conversion...I use a Ford IV Regulator, that looks very similar, to retain the 6 V Dash Gauges when converting the rest of the car to 12V. The Regulator is available at most Auto Stores and Ford used it from the '60's (maybe earlier) up until '89 in the 150 Series and probably cars too. For Starting I only change the Relay but probably should rewind the starter but have had no reason too yet....
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    this 12 volt blower motor is a perfect replacement for the stepdowns original 6 volt one if you want to go 12 volt
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Hudson308 wrote:
    Is it a nice mechanical fit?

    Thanks for that...



    Its an exact fit
  • ESSX28-1
    ESSX28-1 Senior Contributor
    bob ward wrote:
    I had the instrument panel out of my 12V 53 recently, and while I was at it I made and installed an electronic 12V to 5V regulator to feed the fuel gauge and temperature gauge as a replacement for the old mechanical 6V regulator.



    These devices can be made to handle much larger loads, I'm thinking of fan motors and overdrive solenoids here.



    Do you have any suggestion to go the other way (6v --> 12v). I'm looking at fitting a 12v O/D to my 28 Essex Coupe & want to still have the solinoid working.



    I'm aware that a solenoid generates a large reverse polarity voltage when activated, and this is feed straight back into the Reg. I'm not sure of what the particular levels would be, or how it may affect the Regulator, so I'm thinking a decent size diode connected in reverse across the solenoid + and - should prevent any problems.



    Essexly
  • bob ward
    bob ward Senior Contributor
    6V DC to 12V DC is doable, but the circuit is a lot more complicated.



    A 1 amp output can be achieved with DIY circuits, and I guess they could be hooked up in parallel if you needed more than 1 amp.



    Higher output commercial units are available but they are not cheap.



    http://www.citroenclassics.co.uk/page_1233405614462.html



    These ones only run off 6V negative earth, although I guess for most older cars swapping from a +ve earth system to a -ve is as simple as swapping the battery leads.
  • Kdancy
    Kdancy Senior Contributor
    A lot of good info on this site---

    http://www.madelectrical.com/electrical-tech.shtml



    Pay attention to the alternator info.
  • kamzack
    kamzack Senior Contributor
    Many thanks for all of the responses and ideas. After having read all of the posts, I'm gonna stay with 6volts with the exception of the alternator. That'a why I like the Hudson community, good people giving good direction. It's also good to see that others have benefitted as well.

    Thanks again,

    Kim
  • terraplane8
    terraplane8 Senior Contributor
    All my old Hudsons are 6 volt and I can't think why anyone would bother to go 12v.



    So long as your battery cables are the proper thick 6v ones etc.



    My '36 Terraplane sat for 2 months or so over winter in an open carport without being touched or the battery topped up and started up on a very frosty cold morning about -6 degrees C including cranking the fuel up into the float bowl which takes about 20 seconds. And that is with a normal 6v HD battery not a fancy (ie expensive) one either. No sweat and it would have kept on cranking for a while longer easily.
  • 50C8DAN
    50C8DAN Senior Contributor
    The only issue on maintaining a 6V system is to have good, make that excellent grounding and contacts. I often listen to the guys on Car Talk (Click and Clack, NPR radio), on here Sat. mornings. They had a guy call for the second time about having problems starting his '39 Lasalle. Apparently in the last call, a year previous, they talked him into using an 8V battery and told him that was the common fix for old 6V systems. Well after a year that did not work anymore either and so they told him his starter was probably dying. First of all as most of us know unless you tweak your voltage regulator it will not fully charge an 8V battery, so once the initial charge drops you are basically back to or close to a 6V battery. It never occurred to these geniuses that since the car was basically original, except now for the 8V battery the grounds, etc. were probably pretty poor. I emailed them that they were all wet on this one but never heard any mention of it again. The guy probably spent bucks on rebuilding the starter only to find he still could not get it to turn over very well!
  • Park_W
    Park_W Senior Contributor
    stateline wrote:
    this 12 volt blower motor is a perfect replacement for the stepdowns original 6 volt one if you want to go 12 volt



    Stateline, what's the source for this blower motor?
  • Park_W
    Park_W Senior Contributor
    ESSX28-1 wrote:
    I'm aware that a solenoid generates a large reverse polarity voltage when activated, and this is feed straight back into the Reg.



    Dave, any significant pulse of current from a solenoid would occur at the moment it's de-energized, and I know of no history of problems of this sort related to the OD solenoids. Unless I'm missing something with your particular situation, I think it's a non-issue.



    Is it a Laycock OD you're planning to install? I've not seen the data on current draw by the shift solenoid in those critters, but wouldn't think it's all that great. It's my understanding that the shifting is actually hydraulic, and the solenoid merely operates a valve. If so, one of the readily available 6 to 12 electronic inverters would likely do the job.
  • ESSX28-1
    ESSX28-1 Senior Contributor
    Park W wrote:
    Dave, any significant pulse of current from a solenoid would occur at the moment it's de-energized, and I know of no history of problems of this sort related to the OD solenoids. Unless I'm missing something with your particular situation, I think it's a non-issue.



    Is it a Laycock OD you're planning to install? I've not seen the data on current draw by the shift solenoid in those critters, but wouldn't think it's all that great. It's my understanding that the shifting is actually hydraulic, and the solenoid merely operates a valve. If so, one of the readily available 6 to 12 electronic inverters would likely do the job.



    It is a Laycock O/D I'm considering. Solinoid takes 8 amps to move dropping to 2amps on hold. One of those inverters with a 10 amp sustained rating is available & would work but seems somewhat pricey at $110.

    Thanks for the interest.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Park W wrote:
    Stateline, what's the source for this blower motor?



    I'm needing this also if anyone knows. I have mine all apart on the bench right now. I got a close one out of my pile, off some foreign radiator fan but it's too tall. Any word?
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    If anyone is interested, I did some diggin on the VDO website (PITA) the number didn't come up several times. Then I found it, their site does not list a dealer anywhere in the US. I tried a lot of major cities... Anywhoo, in very small print it listed 68-77 Checker marathon, did a search on the NAPA site for Checker cars, and Poof! it came up for $27.00 with a pic NAPA part number is BK 6551022. I can't advise on the fit, but it looks like a winner! I will find out..
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    You can also check with Ron Francis Wiring. They have a 12 - 6v module that you mount and wire.
  • bartibog1
    bartibog1 Expert Adviser
    re heater motor i got 2 of them and they are an exact got them from local supply place. i just took the numbers from the picture posted and they crossed them up for me. i will not be at shop until nexrt week to look at the part number they supplied but as stateline said are an exact fit. any one want number then pm me.

    steve
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Park W wrote:
    Stateline, what's the source for this blower motor?



    Ooops I didnt see this till now , I got it at O'Reilly Auto Parts
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