What is wrong with hot rodding an Essex

Didn't think you knew. Biggest was a 331 " flathead six used in trucks. But who cares? You believe one thing, thats fine. You can do that. I am stating facts as I know them. Thats fine also, so as I said Who Cares? So give it a break, this is not what this forum is about.

Hey, Tom, guess what, buddy, you were wrong...



Most of the Mopar flatheads were limited in dispacement. For years the Plymouth was the "23 inch" six in a 218, the Dodge version was the 230. DeSoto and Chrysler had a bigger "25 inch" flathead six with 228, 236, 251 and if you're lucky, the 265.



A seven main Mopar flathead was developed for Imperial. When luxury cars went to straight eights the Imperial motor was used in heavy duty trucks. This seven main motor was available in trucks with 331, 377 and 413 cubic inch versions. A 413 six is big and heavy, but has lots of torque. These big sixes came with factory dual carbs and twin exhaust manifolds.



Oh, and BTW, my previous answer was correct in it's context.

hey tombpa and 66patrick66,



great discussion on MOPAR engines,



also, glad both of you are discussing this in such an adult manner.



however, maybe both of you should take it to a more appropriate forum, perhaps the Chrysler forum, nobody seems to be using that forum, but us hudson guys probably don't care to read a page of posts about who has superior knowledge on chrysler sixes.



I have included a link below, feel free to continue your slant six/flathead six debate over there! Maybe a MOPAR freak over there can determine who the winner is!





http://www.classiccar.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10



Best!

Rick

hemiEssex wrote:

Well I guess this means that my grandfather (who's 27 essex blew up and wouldn't go over 50MPH, he drove ours numerous times and said it performed about the same as his) The original owner of the car (who was on his 3rd engine) The old fella who owned the Hudson Dealer in Chesley Ontario who sold the car originally, Mr Gansner- a large Essex parts dealer in Alberta Canada, another owner of a 1928 Essex coupe in Niagra Falls Ontario- who we have toured with, a the compilation of books and literature that we have are all wrong and you are right. By the way, our engine was proffessionally rebuilt, rebabbitted, balanced and even run on a machine dyno, it was not done half assed. Maybe as I stated, yours has different gearing in it, the higher speed rear end models were capable of a higher speed, most of the cars in Canada were hardly ever driven on paved roads and I think were geared lower for more low end power. I have a picture of my mother standing beside the Essex with its original owner and she is pregnant with me. I have spoken and researched Essex for 40 years and I stand by my statement that in all of my research in Canada, that the general consensus given to me by folks in the know, was that the #6 cylinder would get starved for oil and the rear bearing would break down. Old time mechanics and an old ex Hudson dealer told me this. If you want to take this personal it is your business, just explain to me where they all went then if they were so reliable. Reliable cars were kept, unreliable cars were junked, most survivors are survivors because they ran well and stayed running from the time they were new, unreliable cars were stuffed in the back of the field and were picked up by junk dealers during the war, any running cars were not usually touched as no new running cars were available. I have had a very long conversation with a Hudson mechanic from Alberta who told me that when an Essex was brought in for trade, the person was given a credit on the new purchase and told to keep the essex. They did not want them. (bad motors) It is quite possible that cars built for export were made differently (geared) I know that the roadsters were fitted with high speed rears, maybe yours has one. As you can see, I have not jumped to a half baked assumption, I have based my statement on facts as I have gathered them. If I am wrong then I apologize to any Essex enthusiasts that I have offended but I disagree with you.



Cheers,

Steve Derby

Smithers BC

Seems to me everyone is getting fired up with this entire thread. Everyone is getting their feelings hurt, and everyone is taking it personally.



I would think that if you did all of this research, and understand what is wrong with the engine and why it has problems, you could figure out a way to make one reliable, even if it is increasing lubrication to #6 cylinder or something.



Knowing information as to why is great, but perhaps the energy might be better put to use as "how". Maybe you could engineer a way to improve the life of these engines?



I can see why everyone is getting frustrated with this thread. Personally, this seems to be the thing lately, with a few people that come on here, partially decided as to what they want to do with their cars, asking for advice or opinions, and then defending them for page after page of replies. You shouldn't have to. don't even bother posting like that. You would have been better off posting, asking for advice as to how to put a hemi into a essex.



While each side has valid points, it does nothing but cause animosity on the board, and that's not what the board is about.



You have heard what everyone's opinion is in regards to your car is, as well as the guy with the pacemaker coupe. My opinions differ for each car for specific reasons, and more so, i can sympathize with you more, because you are esentially looking to improve driveability and enjoyment of a car that DOES have limitations, whereas the pacemaker guy is looking at everything with 350 colored glasses, and the answers have been presented to him and he still doesn't get it (but, Oh well....). I might not agree with your engine choice or direction, but I can rationalize yours a bit more. The pacemaker guy could keep it all "hudson" and still get everything he is looking for... (what's the deal, is he going to need to buy a set of rod bearing for his 350 at NAPA for a roadside repair?)



I would really think about what you are deciding to do, it already sounds like your mind is made up, but maybe you should take a step back, and really consider that what you are doing, might very well be something you might not be pleased with a few years from now. You cannot go back to what you started with, and once you progress with the plans, that's it.



Maybe you can find a happy compromise, that get you your reliability, and driveability, as well as maintian the originality of the car, and doesn't sacrifice what sounds like a real nice car otherwise.



Good luck in whatever you do.

WOW! Nothing like a discussion about "modifying" a car to get the blood flowing! Guess I've waited long enough to put my 2cents worth in. HemiEssex, I went back and read all your post, just to make sure I didn't miss something very important. You said you had done LOTS of studying on the Essex, and you had your mind made up what you wanted the "finished car" to be. Great, more people should put time and effort into that part of it before they turn the first nut. What you haven't said, is what experience you've had, doing stuff like this, in the past. ANYBODY can "say" their going to do something to a car, but doing it is more difficult, and actually sticking with the project ........till completion........is even HARDER. When putting Brand "X" stuff into a car that wasn't designed for it,invites Murphy's Law to raise it's ugly head, every chance it gets. Are you the type that will stick with it, through thick and thin? Have you already implanted in your head that it will cost at least TWICE as much as you thought before you started, and probably take twice as long to complete? I guess the thing that get's the "PURIST'S" all fired up, is that over the years, they've seen good solid cars, passed from one "modifier" to another, and by the time several "rodders", have gone several directions, ON THE SAME CAR, it starts to resemble "FRANKENSTEIN", more than a work of art. DON"T GET ME WRONG, I'm not looking for an argument! You might be Boyd Coddington's right-hand-man! You never said what experience you've had, or what people you've lined up to help with this project. But I will give you some advice........if you want to talk "modifying", be prepared for a heated discussion. That's not good, or bad, that's just the way it is, and probably always will be, so don't try to fight it. If you're going to modify, just make sure your changes are "SAFE". Just remember, their are lots of people lurking around here that will be glad to help you get your car to completion.

There's a '54 Jet 2-door somewhere in Kansas I recently heard about that has a 289 Ford and C-4 tranny, with a '66 Mustang rear end. The work was supposedly done about 10 years ago. I'm going to see if this is for real, and if it's for sale. That would make a cool driver!!!

Just a note on the "street rodding" of an essex. At hershey there was decent looking '29 for $7400.00. Get in it an drive away. I am "rodding" a 28 Essex 4 dr, Super Six. To restore it would be exhorbitant compared to final value. However, there are some very satisfied Essex owner here and in canada just from the hard to find parts from my car. I sold them very reasonable, and all parties are happy.

Dan