Air Conditioning in my Hudson?

I installed Southernrods "Southernair" in my 46 came with everything but the gas. had choice of r-12 or the new stuff I opted for the new. came with brackets too! but mine has been rodded...works to good, my wife sets on passenger side and freezes her legs off..was $575 about 8 yrs ago..

GOOD LUCK on your choice. I think all 3 are good from what I here, just use who makes what you want!

Sorry for the long post, but here's some information for you.



I'm an automotive air conditioning geek. I've been fooling with it for a few years now, enough so that I have an EPA section 609 certification to buy R-12. The short answer to your question is to go with an aftermarket kit such as Vintage or Hot Rod. Take your new old stock compressor and sell it on E-bay to offset some of the costs. But, if you're a masochist or a spendthrift, and I have been accused of both, you can make your GM-powered custom setup work, and work rather well.



My advice is, whether you use your GM compressor, or an aftermarket setup (actually, especially if you use an aftermarket setup), do * N O T * use R-12. Most aftermarket systems are designed to work with either R-12 or R-134a. Go with 134. It's cheap, readily available, safe to both you and the environment, and performs well. Yes, R-12 is a superior refrigerant to R-134a. In comparison to 134a, R-12 has a better thermodynamic profile and operates at lower head pressures for a given volume. But, on a good system, using 134 instead of R-12 will only lose you a couple of degrees performance as measured at the vents. A practical scenario: If you're putting your system together, and you accidentally cut an O-ring, you would rather be out 20 bucks on losing a 134 charge than a couple hundred on an R-12 charge. Or, if you have a problem down the road and have to tear the system down, R-12 isn't getting any cheaper as time goes on and supplies dwindle. Options? Pay the price, or break the system down and convert it. I can count on one hand the number of times in recent years I have used R-12. I ONLY use it in instances where a good functioning R-12 system is just a bit low on charge (and not substantially leaking) and converting it to 134 is more trouble than it's worth. Such was the case with a 1963 Cadillac Coupe De Ville I worked on. Every vehicle that has come to me with a failed or leaking system I have converted to 134, and I've always had good results.



Just for information's sake, There are a number of alternative refrigerants out there that claim superior performance to R-134a. Probably the best one is a product DuPont invented called MP-52, however to my knowledge it is not currently manufactured. You'll also hear about Freeze-12, made by Johansens. I've personally never tried it, but looking at the MSDS on it, it's a blend of about 80% R-134a and about 20% of a very similar refrigerant, with the ASHRAE desgination R-142b. I would expect it to perform much like 134. Then there's R-12a. Note the "a". This stuff is basically propane. It does work and I have installed it before. But I don't use it anymore, because it's, well, FLAMMABLE! It has an odorant in it, Ethyl Mercaptane, which is the nose-wrinkling-rotten-eggs-smell found in natural gas. This is so if your system leaks, you'll know. From experience, its performance is not much better than 134; certainly not enough to offset the safety concerns.



If you use your GM compressor, it will operate FINE on 134. Make sure there's no mineral oil in it from the factory. If there is, drain it. When you put your system together, there should be a sticker on the compressor that tells you how much oil to use. Use that amount, but don't use mineral oil; the lighter 134 molecule will not carry it through the system. You'll need to use either Ester 100 or PAG 150. Pour half the required oil charge into the compressor, and the other half into the receiver/drier. Lewis is correct about the clutch; it should engage with 6 volts applied, and if it doesn't, get yourself a clutch installer tool and reduce the gap between the clutch pressure plate (the outermost part) and the pulley until it does. Just make sure the pulley will still free-spin with no power applied. You're going to need in addition to your mounting setup and pulleys a condenser, evaporator, receiver/drier, and a manifold hose set, as well as assorted A/C O-rings. And you'll need a low pressure cycling switch to install into the receiver/drier (a few bucks) wired in-line with the power lead to the compressor clutch. These parts that you buy new, such as the hose kit, are usually designed to work with either refrigerant. You need to use the largest (physically) condenser and evaporator you can fit in there. More surface area = more heat transfer = better performance. When the major auto manufacturers switched to 134 (for GM it was model year 1994) the way they made up for the performance difference between 12 and 134 was to increase the system size-- condenser size, evaporator size, and hose diameter. In most cases the compressors were the same ones used the previous year for R-12, filled with a different oil, with a different sticker applied!



When you go to charge the system, buy, beg, borrow or steal yourself a vacuum pump and a set of manifold guages and vacuum the system down to as close to 29.92 inches (this is at sea level, subtract 1 inch for each 1000' elevation increase) as you can get for about an hour. Then unhook the pump and let it sit a while with the manifold guages still attached, and see if it leaks its vacuum. If it does, start fixing. If it doesn't after 30 minutes or so, charge the system through the low side service port (for GM systems usually located on the receiver/drier). You're going to have to guess on how much to put in because you're not using a system that was designed for a particular automobile with matched components. I'd have to know exactly what compressor you have to make sure, but a good heuristic would be to charge to a reading of about 225 psi on the high side, and 25-35 psi on the low side, with the clutch engaged of course. It'll probably take about 3 pounds of refrigerant.



Another point to consider is, the better aftermarket systems come with Sanden compressors. These things are GREAT. They come stock on DaimerChrysler vehicles since about 2002. They last longer, are lighter, require less horsepower to operate and are capable of sustaining higher RPM operation than your GM compressor.



You'll have to look at the dollar figures, and see if it pays you to build your own system, and consider if you've got the equipment, time, and patience to do it. Let me know if you need any advice, and how it works out.



Just for the record, my Hudson is a '29, and doesn't have air.



Best Regards,

I've been a licenced refrigeration mechanic for 37 years, had my own business for 20 years now. My advice is that you purchase a good new system and bolt every thing on properly. I wouldn't shroud it in front unless you have a good electric fan as you will lose surface area on your rad. Although an electric fan is ,in my mind, mandatory for those really hot days and/ or when you're moving slow. Then take it to a good refrigeration shop or automotive shop who specialize in auto a/c. They can leak check the sytem for you, install the right oil , evacuate and charge the system properly for you. Won't cost that much and you know its done right. Just as a side note . Its been my experience that an auto shop will charge outrageous amounts compared to what I charge for doing the same thing. They seem to think its rocket surgery and its not. My 2 centavos worth.....Jim

Let me preface this by saying that I know this question is a little off topic, but I'm just trying to satisfy my curiousity. Does anyone have experience with the Swampy brand coolers? The one that I'm talking about is a unit that uses ice water that is pumped from an ice chest (located in back seat or trunk) through a portable fan/coil arrangement you can place in the front seat area. I would assume that cooling may initially be satisfactory but would drop off significantly as the temperature of chilled water increased. I've run across a few people at cars shows using them that claim these units to be a quick and more economical alternative to conventional A/C. But then again, they may be covering up for a purchase faux pas. Any opinions?

Dave53-7C wrote:

Let me preface this by saying that I know this question is a little off topic, but I'm just trying to satisfy my curiousity. Does anyone have experience with the Swampy brand coolers? The one that I'm talking about is a unit that uses ice water that is pumped from an ice chest (located in back seat or trunk) through a portable fan/coil arrangement you can place in the front seat area. I would assume that cooling may initially be satisfactory but would drop off significantly as the temperature of chilled water increased. I've run across a few people at cars shows using them that claim these units to be a quick and more economical alternative to conventional A/C. But then again, they may be covering up for a purchase faux pas. Any opinions?

Never work here!

Jay

Dave53-7C wrote:

How about the evaporative/swamp coolers? Do people still use those in houses there?

Yeah Dave, there still around, in fact I have one on my roof. Never use it though. You used to be able to use swamp coolers until about the beginning of July, but now our summers are getting hot so early they don't work. This year we had 114 in early May! An evap cooler won't get your house below 95 degrees with that heat. Even at 7% humidity. I put 2 new HVAC/Furnaces on my house last summer and how sweet! And you definately gotta have a/c in your car! It can get over 150 degrees inside a car w/ the windows up parked outside in the sun. Its 8:45pm now and its 98 degrees w/ 29% humidity (I know, quite whining....buts its humid for us!) and the heat index is 101 degrees. Our overnight low should be about 85 degrees.

The problem w/ ice here is that it melts before it can do any good! I'm going with a/c, just don't know which company yet, but you guys have given some good info. I think I could get away with a front unit only (w/ a coupe), but do you guys think I should get a rear air? I hate a hot car that takes 45 minutes to cool down (my ol' Range Rover a/c stinks). And Mama is ticked that my Hudson interior and my engine/tranny is in the garage and her truck has to be outside! She's talking about buying me a prefab wooden shed/shop so the garage can get cleaned out!

Jay