Hudson Hornet License Plate Frames

Jon B

Let's step back for just a minute and think about this.



NASCAR is trying to protect its name from unauthorized use by those wishing to profit from it.



But if I scrawled "Hudson -- NASCAR Winner" on the side of my Hudson, they would have to have their head examined, to sue me. The suit would be thrown out of court. I'm not merchandising the NASCAR name.



So, if Niels simply has paperwork to prove that he had a bunch of these frames made up "for his friends", and that they all split the cost -- with no one making a profit -- then no one could accuse him of profiting at NASCAR's expense.



It shouldn't be hard to take advance orders, and split the cost (I'll leave it to Niels' creative accounting to show there's no profit, LOL!), you'd probably be okay. On the other hand, if he makes up a few hundred of these things, promotes them widely amongst the general public, and becomes a millionaire....well.....watch out!

Lee ODell

walt's garage-53 wrote:

What ever you do, do not use the word NASCAR, as they will take you to court for using their name with out permission. Then they will demand a royalty on every set sold and it could be the full amount. Walt.

What about STOCK CAR CHAMP. That takes up the same amount of space as NASCAR CHAMPIONS. After all, Hudson was not only champion in NASCAR but also AAA stock car races, NHRA and any other legal or illegal races. Lee

Unknown

Jon B wrote:

Let's step back for just a minute and think about this.



NASCAR is trying to protect its name from unauthorized use by those wishing to profit from it.



But if I scrawled "Hudson -- NASCAR Winner" on the side of my Hudson, they would have to have their head examined, to sue me. The suit would be thrown out of court. I'm not merchandising the NASCAR name.



So, if Niels simply has paperwork to prove that he had a bunch of these frames made up "for his friends", and that they all split the cost -- with no one making a profit -- then no one could accuse him of profiting at NASCAR's expense.



It shouldn't be hard to take advance orders, and split the cost (I'll leave it to Niels' creative accounting to show there's no profit, LOL!), you'd probably be okay. On the other hand, if he makes up a few hundred of these things, promotes them widely amongst the general public, and becomes a millionaire....well.....watch out!

Good points Jon. Why not let the manufacturer of the plate frames worry about the legal aspects, if any.

MikeWA

Just to throw my "lawyer" two bits into this: From what I've seen of trademark infringement cases, the big dog is not interested in what little money comes from this project; they are interested in controlling their trademarked name. They will not try to get a percentage of the take, they will just get an injunction and make you stop, plus ask for "damages" in an amount that will scare the he!! out of you. But don't worry, they'll roll over on the damages, if you just get all the offending merchandise back and destroy it.



Contrary to popular belief, this doesn't take years of litigation and hundreds of thousands of dollars- It will only be as lengthy and costly as you make it for them- and you would be foolish not to fold like a Walmart card table if you are served with a lawsuit threatening famine, pestilence and plague, by an entity with pockets that deep.



Not that they aren't interested in money- they certainly are- but only through licensing agreements that are going to make big dollars. And undoubtedly, someone already has the right to use the NASCAR name on license plate frames.



BTW, what did Chrysler say when you asked them about using the Hudson name?



Believe I'd rethink the project.

junkcarfann

Mike (WA) wrote:

Just to throw my "lawyer" two bits into this: From what I've seen of trademark infringement cases, the big dog is not interested in what little money comes from this project; they are interested in controlling their trademarked name. They will not try to get a percentage of the take, they will just get an injunction and make you stop, plus ask for "damages" in an amount that will scare the he!! out of you. But don't worry, they'll roll over on the damages, if you just get all the offending merchandise back and destroy it.



Contrary to popular belief, this doesn't take years of litigation and hundreds of thousands of dollars- It will only be as lengthy and costly as you make it for them- and you would be foolish not to fold like a Walmart card table if you are served with a lawsuit threatening famine, pestilence and plague, by an entity with pockets that deep.



Not that they aren't interested in money- they certainly are- but only through licensing agreements that are going to make big dollars. And undoubtedly, someone already has the right to use the NASDCAR name on license plate frames.



BTW, what did Chrysler say when you asked them about using the Hudson name?



Believe I'd rethink the project.

Exactly.



NASCAR makes a big portion of their profits from clothing and trinkets such as license plate frames, via the licensing of their name. Much of their legal department is focused upon protecting the name, which they have done with great success.



I do not know if this tiny project would even surface on their radar, (unless perhaps this on-line discussion triggers it), but the principle remains: NASCAR makes money from licensing their name. Unlicensed usage gets stomped on. Period.

hudsontech

Dave53-7C wrote: »

So are Hudson, Essex, Terraplane, Hornet, Wasp and everything else Hudson that you are reproducing and selling. Do you have authorization from Chrysler to use the Hudson property they own? Let us know if they come knocking at your door and we'll come and save you.



In the case of literature it depends on the copyright of the work itself. For example, my General Info Handbook is copyrighted - this means you can't go out and print up copies and sell them without my permission, or paying me a royalty.

If the copyrights on, say, a 1924 Hudson instruction book, are still in force, then I could possibly be in trouble. However, that said, I'm not selling the material nor is it exactly the same as original, so there is that to consider.



Hudsonly,

Alex Burr

Memphis, TN

Unknown

hudsontech wrote:

Dave53-7C wrote: »

So are Hudson, Essex, Terraplane, Hornet, Wasp and everything else Hudson that you are reproducing and selling. Do you have authorization from Chrysler to use the Hudson property they own? Let us know if they come knocking at your door and we'll come and save you.



In the case of literature it depends on the copyright of the work itself. For example, my General Info Handbook is copyrighted - this means you can't go out and print up copies and sell them without my permission, or paying me a royalty.

If the copyrights on, say, a 1924 Hudson instruction book, are still in force, then I could possibly be in trouble. However, that said, I'm not selling the material nor is it exactly the same as original, so there is that to consider.



Hudsonly,

Alex Burr

Memphis, TN

Alex,



Like I said before, you are just passing along info that you have paid for/own and are charging only what it costs you to do so. No profits, right?

hudsontech

Dave53-7C wrote:

hudsontech wrote: »

Alex,



Like I said before, you are just passing along info that you have paid for/own and are charging only what it costs you to do so. No profits, right?

I make a couple bucks off my handbook, Dave. But the point is, yes, I’ve used material from other sources and

most of those sources are given in the general notes section. Usually crediting the source pretty much covers

the use of the material - if someone should send me a letter saying I can’t use that material, then I would proba-

bly have to remove it from the handbook.







Another example are the technical bulletins on my web site. The Tech. Bulletins - Vol. 1 were originally published in the WTN back in the 1970’s and early 80’s. Does this mean the president of the club is going to send me a rocket saying I can’t put them on-line. Most likely not, in this case.



Another source to look at are the books and manuals offered on ebay by Faxon. Do they have permission from multiple sources to reprint the automotive manuals they sell?? Or closer to home, the club store. What’s the set-up on the manuals they offer. Again, it is my understanding that if an item is “reproduced”, as opposed to “duplicated” (meaning reproduced in such manner it is a mirror image of the original, then one is probably not going to have problems. By “mirror image” I mean putting out a manual, or whatever, that exactly duplicates the color of the covers, the formatting, which includes type face - in other words a product that is a direct duplicate of the original.



In the case of the license plate frames the use of the word (??) NASCAR is a direct duplicate and thus could be a problem. Even using something like “Champion Hornets” or “Hornet Champions” could be a problem - Chrysler may own the rights to Hornet. AMC used it; Chrysler bought AMC. Hudson Champions might be ok, but I think you could run into a problem using crossed checkered flags in the logo to denote what kind of champions.



As the Grinch said “’tis a puzzle!!”



Hudsonly,



Alex Burr

Memphis, TN

Unknown

Alex,



For all anyone knows, the company reproducing the plate frames is paying a royalty. Whether they are or aren't, the people buying them have nothing to worry about.

[Deleted User]

FYI- The frames are in transit and I will have them end of next week. Hopefully next weekend, I can mount a couple on my Hornet and post a pic.

RL Chilton

Niels-



What is the size? Are they set up for modern plate sizes? Any chance of making some that fit the older license plates?