are we turning into the "stepdown" club?

Unknown

went to a car show today,talked to a guy with a 1916 Hudson.

the gist of the conversation was we drive too fast for him to keep up,and that's why he doesn't go to any of the local meets.

seems like a lot of these guys would rather hang out with the horseless carriage crowd,and that makes me sad,because I love going to shows and seeing all kinds of cars,brass era,vintage,classic,you name it,hot rods & customs too.

oh well...

Aaron D. IL

I agree I would like to see a lot more early and pre-war cars out at shows and meets. If taking roads other than interstates and driving slower or any other mechanism that would accomplish that, I'd be all for it. Any early Hudson owner on the board, feel free to jump in here but I sometimes get the impression that early Hudson owners are more nervous about driving their cars at all. I keep in mind that for the next 48 years a Hudson will become a 100 year old car every year. There's also less tech people in our club with direct experience working with cars that far back in years. Only a handful of members that could get together and have a meeting about working on 1909's - 1912's for example. I don't think I've even seen project one's of those come up for sale in the last 10 WTN's.

Geoff

Loghistically, the post-waqr cars of course have the edge as far as knowledge, parts, and driveability are concerned. But I think it is a pity if the earlier models are not catered for and encouraged to take part in club affairs. After all, Hudson sold far more cars in this era than they ever did after the war. My 1928 Essex is one of over 228,000 sold, imagine how profitable the company would have beenif they could have sold that many in any post war year. There must m still be huge numbers of them left, but how often do they turn up. I do endeavour to fill the void with technical articles catering for the "vintage years", but there's little else I can do from here on the bottom of the globe, so it's over to you guys to encourage theses member with older cars to participate.

Geoff.

[Deleted User]

Geoff, et al, The reality is that the cars built prior to 1939 have a historical significance for a shrinking population. It's not just Hudson products. How many model A Fords do you see driving around? They were produced in far grater numbers than any Hudson was yet where are they? Most have wound up as hot rods or resto rods. The idea of taking a car that goes 30-40 mph on the interstate highway is dangerous so why would someone want to take that chance? Most of the stepdown owners drive their cars, and want to drive to the max limit too! Parts and expertise are still available. Whereas parts and knowledge for a 1929 essex is tough to come by. Even when restored, they have a very limited road use. Youre not seeing to many younger people interested in origional 20's and 30's vehicles. The reality is that most people know about the Hudson Hornets if they know anything about Hudson at all. If you're going to lament, lament to a passing generation . Please don't misunderstand , I love the old Hudson products but to say we as stepdown owners are the cause of the demise of the interest in the prewar cars just isn't true.

Jon B

Back when the H-E-T was young, it wasn't unusual at all to see Hudsons from the '20's and earlier at shows. And they were driven there. In our own chapter, Fred Long and Leroy Anderson covered thousands of miles in their pre-1920 Hudson touring cars, often traveling together. What happened was "meaner streets", plus a fading interest in the older cars (because newer members had little interest in "pre-historic" cars they simply had no connection to). You also have this: a fellow who had driven a 1920 car since he was a young man, was completely comfortable behind the wheel of one. Even in the 1990's, Fred would think nothing of driving it on crowded public roads. He'd owned his 1915 for decades and he was completely "one" with it. Nowadays, someone who might possibly buy one, is operating a piece of machinery that he has little experience with. Thus, he may limit his time behind the wheel to moving the car from a trailer to the showfield.



Then, too, people with the older cars tend to "stick with their own". I know H-E-T'ers with StepDowns who participate in Hudson shows, but who drive their older Hudsons on "brass tours". Let's face it, they get more appreciation there (younger car show spectators tend to gravitate to muscle cars!) and there's a great support system when elderly machines break down.



That said, I do believe it's a shame not to bring out the older vehicles. At this year's National, Ken Holmes was giving his legendary rides in the '09, and I personally witnessed three sub-seven-year-olds excitedly riding in Buzz Stahl's 1920 limousine. And Buzz dragged that all the way to Pontiac from California!



And who says the older cars can't be driven long distances, anyway? On Friday night (at Pontiac) a guy pulled in from California in his mid-twenties Hudson coach, pulling a trailer! I'm told that the "chase truck" had some mechanical problems en route, but the Hudson made it in fine form! So....c'mon, gang, let's get a few more of those early Hudsons and Essexes out to some meets!

Unknown

Fact is traffic moves above the speed limit on most rural roads especially in my area. I don't like to drive my '39 or my '40 much above 50 mph on the bias-ply tires so I plan my trips for low traffic times of the day, and watch for approaching traffic. I move over when safe to do so and let them pass. Never had a problem. My stepdown used to keep up but it had radials and overdrive. I cringe whenever I see a model A on the freeway.

Aaron D. IL

I don't know if this is along the same lines, but seems like every time I take my 'Blue Goose' anywhere I am almost assaulted by other vehicles in a hurry or trying pass me. Twice I have almost been hit or run off the road. It is not like I am going that much slower than the posted speed limit for the local suburban roads, and in most cases I am right around it - Seems like everyone is doing 10-15 MPH over them, all the time.

And recently, a local fatal accident highlighted this - 62 year old man and his 10 year old daughter were killed while they were riding in his antique car (Model A Ford) on a highway near here. Not pretty - The guy even had a 'slow moving vehicle sticker' in his rear view window however the idiot who rear ended them was apparently going too fast to see it or the antique auto...

Read the link - This was the 2nd fatal accident involving an antique vehicle in less than a week.

Makes me more than a bit leery about going for a casual ride - But, ya can't hide in your garage & use the fan to get the wind to blow in your hair (What there is left of it... :rolleyes:), right?

The sad part of that is in a country where blaming the victim is a sport, non-car folks would probably assume that the antique car was responsible for the accident. It can't be everyone going 10-15 over the limit and texting on their phone or playing with their GPS screen at the same time they're driving. To get anyone to drive the limit intended a town would have to post it 10-15 lower than they wanted to allow for. Speeding is as American as apple pie (I know other countries like it too) it lets people feel like their wild free rebels just a little.

Around my town speeds don't get above 45 mph because of lower limits and population density, so I wouldn't have a problem with driving a pre-war car around here but if I was out on the road I'd stay on lower speed country highways and off the interstate. Driving earlier stuff I wouldn't attempt a cross-country trip without packing the trunk full of spare parts and would prefer to caravan for safety. I wouldn't hesitate to do that for a show that was worth it, like a national I wouldn't do it for a small meet.

Sarah Young

I had my girls watch Chitty Chitty Bang Bang just a couple nights ago. Although there are no Hudsons in the movie, and the boating and flying action was part of a story, it's a fun way to see the antique cars in action and makes you think it might be fun to own a car that old... or add gadgets to the one you've got, LOL!

MikeWA

Its probably a problem with no solution. One of the things that is so appealing about the stepdown is it's "competence" on the road. I went to a NW Chapter meet in Seattle once, starting at the rest area on I-5 in Tacoma. I was driving an old Mercedes diesel, and 60 is about flat out on those. We entered the freeway, everyone roared past me, and I never saw them again until I reached our destination. I have a stepdown now, and push it pretty hard whenever I drive it (gotta keep the carbon burned out, ya know)- The thought of going somewhere at 40 mph just has no appeal to me!

Unknown

It is obvious to me and those who have posted here that the "mean streets" that Jon B speaks of are indeed the reason we all need to be especially cautious and use all the SITUATION AWARENESS skills when taking our classic autos on to the byways.



The number one challenge today is to realize others on the road DO NOT give one second's thought about other driver's welfare. After seeing a driver enter a local coffee house... with her car! I know we are all destined to be victimized by someone at sometime while driving. BTW the coffee house incident was caused by a driver who turned to park and forgot to brake because of an incoming text message!



RICK the mapquest thing helps reduce the incidence of fast moving idiots... but my situation awarness is still maxed out on those byways. :eek:



Be safe

Browniepetersen

It is simply a mind set. I agree with every comment made to this point, but lets be honest. If you want to drive your car you need to make some consessions. I contend that the perfect way to live is with a car that will keep up with the younger group (Stepdown or Modified); a car that is all original--never restored, and that high point restoration that you spend mega time on and big bucks. That is the perfect life style; but, not all can live that life style. Here in the "high mountains" in the west--this is where if three hudsons show up, it is a national meet, it is hard sometimes to take the old car out and cross over one of the local mountain pass to make it to a show. Since you are the only Hudson at the show there is no network of Hudson folks to stand around your car and give advice if you break down. That being said, I have waited a life time to have my 39 and my 36. I plan to enjoy what few remaining years (30 or 40) I have racking up the miles. If I schedule a national meet, I may trailer to the show simply to keep the miles down on the car; but, drive is in my opinion what it is all about. Keep them as nice as I can but drive them long and often... We old Hudson drivers need to step up our effort to be seen and appreciated. I'd love to have a brass hudson in my collection---maybe next car.....:):)

junkcarfann

I think it is more than a "mean streets" mindset, although that is certainly a part of it.



I remember back in 1970 driving 80 mph in a 1957 312 Ford, and I was passing all interstate traffic, flying by much of it. Today that is normal interstate cruising speed. I felt on the edge of control at that speed.



Today everything is different, and the reason is technology. Modern cars have radials, disc brakes (often on all 4), computer-tuned suspension, lighter cars, ABS, etc. These improvements allow people to drive faster, corner faster, approach stop signs much faster, than they could just a few decades ago. And those modern cars lull drivers into a false sense of safety; thus they are driving past their limits of accident-evasion control.



Just came back from a trip...cars were two feet apart, three lanes side-by-side, weaving through the bumpy curves of an interstate as it threaded thru a city.

All this at 70 mph. That could not have happened with 1960 or earlier technology (tires, etc), unless you have a stepdown, or a sports car.:)

[Deleted User]

Another perspective. I used to ride antique motorcycles. It was often more comfortable riding with other antique motorcyclists than a regular club. The reason for this was the choice of roads and the likelihood of a breakdown and roadside repair. The riding was at a slower pace. When someone broke down it was a chance to either help or marvel at their skill. I would ride bikes that were 100 years old and some that were 70 years old and some that were new. They all were ridden for different purposes and with different groups. It was always best when there were meets that got all of those groups together.



If you want to involve the antique car guys you may have to slow down to their speed and go to them.

Lee ODell

In the Los Angeles area, which have some of the worst traffic in the U.S., there is a very active Model A club. They drive around town all the time. I've even seen them driving over Interstate I5's ridge route which is a long 6% grade, part of 60 miles of mountainous Interstate Hwy between Los Angeles and Bakersfield. Once, while waiting for Auto Club tow, when my late model car quit on the grade, along comes a caravan of cars from the 30's and 40's up that grade. Must have been 20-30 cars. That was exciting to see. More exciting than museum displayed cars.



Jay Leno, whom I consider a young man, drives his classic cars every day by my house. Some pre teens, teens, 30's, 40's, 50's, steam car, electric car, gas cars. He enjoys driving them.



I to would like to see more early cars at the meets. A young person can't get interested and enthused in something he is not exposed to riding in, or my gosh get to drive?



The national was a good example. Also, the Western Reginal meet in 2006 was a good turn out for the 20's cars. We need to see them more often.



I hear of classic cars destroyed while locked up in garages and museums far more oiften than damaged on the road. If you have them, enjoy the drives.



Lee

Lee ODell

What a day. While parking in front of the house. Jay Leno drives by in a car from the teens period. There was to much bumper to bumper traffic and I was parking to determined what make of car. My first thought was model T with top down. However it could have been any make from that time period. We need more early cars at the meets for those of us who are not familiar with them to recognized what we are looking at. Lee

rambos_ride

Breakdowns and parts availability have to be some of the problems with owning/driving early century cars.

These cars just were not made for todays roads and speeds. I agree with the experience factor as well - the early cars had to be "driven"
by that I mean that folks today are used to climbing in a car and basically being on "auto-pilot"

The technology today is so good there is no real skills involved in driving.

I owned CJ5's for over 25 years - and these had to be "driven" also - you cannot cruise in "auto-pilot" while you're being bounced and thrown all over the road.

I love the early cars, just not into owning one - but if I did, I would trailer it to the meets and then drive them around.

[Deleted User]

I love the pre-stepdown cars.



The biggest barrier for me is expense. That still doesn't keep me from admiring them at meets.



The streets are "mean" these days. Strength in numbers is a key thing. The more you have in your caravan, the more likely you are to survive. Choice of roads also comes to play. Several old car groups and old motorcycle groups blow through my country just because of the slower roads and scenery.



I like to get out and play on the mean roads with a stepdown, just because they can deal with that. We are fortunate enough to live in a place where we could enjoy both kinds of vehicles. An Essex coach wouldn't be any more hazardous than coming up on a tractor, which folks are already kind leary of around here.



If providence is with me, I'd like to be a pre-stepdown owner someday. I'll drive it - somewhere.



Mark

SamJ

The National in Pontiac had the biggest display of square HET cars, some mostly original, that any of us are likely to see in our lifetimes...:o

terraplane8

I find that my '33 and '36 eights can be driven in modern traffic OK. The speed limit here on the open road is 100km/h = 62.5mph. Most people travel at between 95 and 105 km/h. Although they are a little slower than many newer cars on the flat, they come into their own on hills, maintaining their speed nicely on average hills just as well as a modern car. They both seem to cruise easily at 60mph. The '33 ET8 especially flies up hills no matter how long or steep, I guess a function of the light weight 2,675 lbs and 4.1 litres of torque output (it's 30 thou over in the bore). Actually over here in NZ both these cars are very rare to encounter on the roads - you would be almost guaranteed never to see another one, not that I know of anyway.

37 CTS

This year we had so many pre step down cars there was a parking lot just for them. There were several members who brought cars from California to Michigan. It was a great sight to see the many older cars and almost all years present. And I learned more about older Hudson this year from the owners.

The Hudson Essex Era tech session has grown over the years and we had 63 members present. Thats a threefold increase from when I started these sessions! Thanks to all who participated.

I headed off to the meet in my 37H8 and drove 65 to 70 mph the speed limit and completely enjoyed "Hudsoning".



We have moved beyond the label "Stepdown Club' to embrace all HET cars.

[Deleted User]

While I am fairly new to owning one of these early cars, I can tell you that if you do have any interest in them, and do not consider looking into finding one of your own, you are missing out on a lot of enjoyment.



I do totally agree that the interstate highway is NOT the place to drive these cars, but there are other ways to get to meets, and shows such as traveling on secondary roads, or transporting them by trailer. So I guess the interstate excuse seems like a cop-out to me. Sorry. I drive Semi Truck for work, and believe me, if you could look down, and see what these idiots are doing while "driving" at 70+ MPH, you would know that you aren't safe driving ANYTHING out there!



I have owned, and driven Hudsons, and other brands from the 1930's-70's including muscle cars, and never had as much fun as I have had with my 1920 Essex. No other vintage of car can match the volume of "smiles per mile" period!



For practicality, and safety, I do trailer it to Hudson meets, and other shows that are a distance from home. That said, once at the location, I run the wheels off of it giving rides. I also drive it locally quite a bit. Since getting it back on the road in August of last year, I have clocked over 350 miles on it, so you'll have a hard time convincing me that you can't drive these cars!



While at the National Meet in Pontiac, I clocked just over 55 miles on it giving rides, and sharing the 1920's motoring experience with anyone that asked, and had a blast doing it! The look of dis-belief on peoples faces when you ask them if they would like to go for a ride is priceless. I guess they are so used to seeing these cars displayed, and roped off in museums, or at shows that they never thought they would ever have the chance to have the experience of riding in one.



The other big kick, is the reaction that little kids have, and that it really brings history to life for them, rather than just a boring subject they have to take in school.



For anyone that may be interested in considering an early Hudson, or Essex, I encourage you to look into it. While they are a whole different animal than a Stepdown, there are several good places to get technical help, and advice.

The Yahoo Groups sites for the Essex Super 6, and Hudson Super 6 1916-29 are great places to get help, and are very active. Other good sources are the HET Club Registries for the different years, and models listed in the WTN. These list the other owners of the respective cars, and most everyone is very willing to help each other out. Of course we can't forget one of the best, Geoff Clark, right here on the forum, who is always so generous in sharing his vast mechanical experience on these early cars with everyone.



For my fellow owners of these early Hudson, and Essex cars, the best way to get new folks interested in these early cars, and as a result, increase the number of active cars at HET meets, and shows is to share them by giving rides rather than parking the car, and grouching at people for looking at them crooked!:rolleyes: I guarantee you will have a lot more fun!

Unknown

I own an Essex Terraplane 1933. I live in PONTIAC, it is in the Detroit metro area, we build 'em, and drive'em. Many of us drive our daily car too hard. I am always aware of the cars around me (or try to be) and have not been hit hard in the Essex yet. .I drive the car. The single most embarassing moment at the national meet was when the long distance award for an Essex driven to the meet, went to a car driven to the meet from a whopping distance of 31 miles. I was the runner-up at 3 miles!!!!!!! Mind you now I drove over 250 miles while AT the meet. Driving to 3 cruise-ins and dinner out several times,back home every night and back to the meet in the morning, and a trip to the icecream store! Twice to the gas station. Chrysler museum, you get the picture. Anyway back to driving the Essex. We drive it at 55-60 on the x-way and the speed limit (or above) on surface streets. In this area you must be a "driver" because sooooo many of the itiots sitting on the left side of the car are NOT DRIVING. I have seen it all, make-up, shaving (beard, not legs), phones, reading a frickin' book at 75 mph on the freeway.and on and on. Get yourself an Essex And drive it and you will hear it EVERY time you walk past the garage."Can we go out today? It's only raining a little, and I need to get this dust off of me anyway, it's been 3 whole days!!!!" Or early in the spring as you are putting away the snow blower for the last time "Is the salt off of the roads yet? Can we PLEASE go out for a drive, my pistons are sore from sitting, and I have flat spots on my tires that NEED rounding out" These cars talk to you , they DO!!

Mike Riley

DRIVER of a 33 Terraplane

2400 miles last year.

Unknown

I have to agree there is a step down attitude and if modified blinders go on if it's a 308 twin H !! Didn't know there was a driven award, opps, my Terraplane is modified that my wife drove to the nationals through all the rain storms from Richmond, Indiana while I was hauling the other original 34 and cart. I wish the outings or tours were in our cars and not on buses in the future. I was sad I couldn't get tickets to the dinner so we just got more lawn chair time. Some photos, even maybe in front of the Hudson tree with one of the cars or Millers would have been great. All in all it was probably the best Hudson meet we will all see and THANKS for all the WORK!

[Deleted User]

I've owned a total of six Stepdowns, one Hash, and a Metropolitan...all runners/drivers but for the first one, a '50 Pacemaker coupe. BUT, I've found the car I like the best is my '37 Terraplane! I like driving it. It'll do 65 all day long, thanks to the overdrive from a Hornet! I will not drive it on the Interstate, precisely since everyone around here feels that 80 is the speed limit; and that is only an advisory! It drives like a new car, and really draws the attention. In a sense, I feel that it is precisely the fact it is NOT a street rod that is attracts the attention it does! Plus, people don't know what it is...never mind it says what it is on all four hubcaps, the grille, and the trunk emblems!



I know I'd been considering selling it for a while, but I think I'll keep it...at least until the HET Nats in Oklahoma City!:D

Lee ODell

It was fun watching those early cars giving rides at the national. Seeing the excitement on the children's faces was fun. I'm sure that is an ever lasting experience they will not forget. Also, there were some wide smiles on the faces of adults.



Thanks to all you drivers for giving joy to so many. Lee

SamJ

Lee O'Dell wrote:

It was fun watching those early cars giving rides at the national. Seeing the excitement on the children's faces was fun. I'm sure that is an ever lasting experience they will not forget. Also, there were some wide smiles on the faces of adults.



Thanks to all you drivers for giving joy to so many. Lee

Right on, Lee...I just loved seeing those early cars (09's thru 12's) running around with gleeful passengers young and old. :D

hudsontech

Ok, I'll toss my brick thru the window. Regards driving pre-WWII cars on U S highways; it has been my experience that it might not be such a great idea along the east coast, or maybe even the west coast (been over 50 years since I've been out there. Along the eastern seaboard, particularly between New England and DC drivers are totally insane. On my trips in the past few years to Memphis, I would use I-90 to New York just to avoid CT!!!! The interstate between Hartford and Waterbury was nuts.



However, in between the Appalachians and the Rocky Mountains, especially east of the Mississippi River I've found many of the old 2-lane highways still driveable and really not all that crowded. I've driven, thru Indiana and Illinois, US 24, US 36, US 40, etc. US 30, at least thru Ohio is truck bound; US 40 can be fairly heavy. But still it should be relatively safe for the slower speeds of 1930's cars. Pre-1930, I really would have to think twice, myself.



West of the Mississippi River I'm not to sure how the old US highways are out there as I haven't driven them recently (2001 was the last time I was out that way) except in the Memphis area. US 70 between Memphis and Little Rock is empty most of the time; ditto US 64 between Fort Smith and Little Rock. Back then, tho, I found US 20 in Iowa to be lightly traveled (they were working on making it into a hi-speed cross-country 4-lane at that time), same with 12 across South Dakota/North Dakota into Miles City, Montana. And my daughter and I found US 16, US 385 and US 20 into Valentine to also be lightly traveled.



Basically, any old US 2-lane that is within, say 25, 30 or maybe a little more, from an interstate will be relatively empty with only local traffic. The speed demons will be over on the interstate.



Those are my observations. Drive and try to enjoy.



Hudsonly,

Alex Burr

Memphis, TN

[Deleted User]

SamJ wrote:

Right on, Lee...I just loved seeing those early cars (09's thru 12's) running around with gleeful passengers young and old. :D

I echo all the sentiments regarding the early cars of Hudson. If you've ever ridden in an F-head Essex four or one of the 1916-1929 Hudson Super Sixes, you just can't completely get them out of your system. Go back and read up on some of the legendary record-setting of these cars and you will find they were as outstanding in their day as the later cars were in theirs. Incidentally, in the photo posted by Sam J, that's my brother, Bill Kruzan, riding in the Mile-a-Minute Hudson piloted by owner Clem Lange. Bill even got to crank the car to start it! I also got to ride in that car, as well as in Clem's other car, the 1919 Essex "Silver Bullet". These rides were real thrills for me and Bill at the National in Pontiac. Dee Kruzan

Unknown

Amusing comments, I have to agree withn you all. I have found over the years that most people who know/knew what a Terraplane 8 was are either dead/dying or dont care, But last month at a local car show this 11 year old kid comes up to my car with 2 buddys and his mom and went bananas yelling that there was a Terraplane 8. Seems that he had read about them in a book, needless to say he got to set in the drivers seat while his mom took a picture, !!Happy as a sissy.!! I can run my car on the interstates as I have a 3.07 rear, juice brakes and radial tires, who cares if that is not original.? Any Hudson product befoe 1929 is a runner as Jon B says I can remember in the 60's Fred and Leroy and many other prewar Hudson at car shows. Most of them are owned by senior citizens who went to shows all the time for years and now are just plan tired. Jon did you know that Fred Longs car was original and that it came from a estate on Wisconson ave. in 1953 As I remember and he knew my uncle when he still owned my car. My uncle ran the car inspection station on West Va. ave in DC. and drove Hudson his whole life. Fred Long was a DC. cop. nicest guy you would ever meet.

[Deleted User]

Let's continue the trend- we should get the Govt involved to settle these differences. LOL



Actually, I'm sure we like all Hudsons. Maybe some just like some more than others.

[Deleted User]

nhp1127 wrote:

Let's continue the trend- we should get the Govt involved to settle these differences. LOL



Actually, I'm sure we like all Hudsons. Maybe some just like some more than others.

Walt here. I chose the 53 Hornet because I wanted a car to travel across this country. I love the old Hudson's but the motors would not drive across this country like I do with my 53. Try putting 175,100 miles on them in 11 years without touching anything and drive on super highways with traffic in the 75 to 90 range. I built a 1951 Hudson 8 engine to shoe horn into a 1934 8 with the 3 speed with overdrive and installed a Ford rear with 3:50 gears, along with air condition. In the next few weeks we will add cruise control. Forgot, we installed Hornet front brakes because at 70 mph the front brakes and the rear brakes on cable would no stop this car. It is now a driver. Walt.