52 Wasp suspension update

[Deleted User]

Has anyone updated the suspension on a stepdown to something more modern like a nova or mustang 2. Does one style work better then another. I am looking to install disc breaks & put in somethng that parts are cheaper & easier to find. I have installed a small block & I am currently having clearance issues with the old steering.

[Deleted User]

Well if you put the right motor in there you would'nt have that trouble. Sorry
that was my evil side talking. I only see two weak points in the Hudson front
suspension. The center steer bearing is to weak in original form. And great benifit is gained from disc brakes. Bolth of these issues can be addressed fairly easily.As amater of fact they were just talking about disc brake mods here last week.
But as to your clearance issue if you want to put different framework in it is available from hotrod type suppliers. I have seen mustang II setups for Hudson there. As I said above I think its a big waste of time and money, but its your car.
Roger

RL Chilton

I mostly agree with Roger. It's a waste of time and money, IMHO. However, it has been done before. Fatman Fabrications now makes a clip that can be had where you cut off the existing front end and weld in their new one. Modern spindles, disc brakes, whole new front end, and it can be set up with motor mounts for whatever you are running. Mustang II has been done as well, do a search here on the forum for the logistics.

Personally, I'd put my '52 (with properly adjusted drum brakes) up against any other step-down with disc brakes, and you will not beat my stoppiing distance, period. Hudson drums and shoes (at least the wider front shoes) are not like Chebbies or Fords of old. They're infinitely better.

lsfirth

Hey PWRLINZ,

The following link describes my install of a fatman stub frame and mustang II components from JW Rod Garage.
http://www.classiccar.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=24&id=114985&Itemid=129
If you can wade through all the comments and side-tracks, I think it's pretty much a complete install. I haven't driven it yet, so can't comment on the steering or breaking performance....some day

I'm in the middle of putting a triangulated 4 link with a 9" in back. Progress has been slow lately with a new son, but he's 5 months now so I've been able to get out to the shop a little lately!!

Sounds like Roger and Russell forgot they were in the "street rod" section of the forum.....theirs might stop better and steer better, but at least mine will be lower

Good luck!
Lee

[Deleted User]

I don't think I forgot anything , I stated my opinion of the original eqipment mod's available. And told the gentleman he could find whole front end assemblies in the hotrod magazines ads. I know I've seen them in there from one or two vensers for Hudson. I just wanted to make it clear It was lot of work for little change.
Roger

[Deleted User]

I appreciate all feedback negative or positive to my thoughts. It helps make good decisions. The old engine had some issues. I could have spent time, effort & money in it & maybe have more problems down the road. I decided to go more modern so i could add theose modern conviences more easily, be able to take the family on loang hauls & know if I were to break down I could easily get the parts I needed. I was also hoping that If I were to change the steerign I could gain more clearance for the exhaust.
Thanks for all the help & insight
Tim

[Deleted User]

The exhaust clearance is an issue all the way back to the carrier
bearing area. I know what you mean, I've never been under a stock Hudson
with the headers and duel exhaust. I'd love to see how they managed to do that.
Roger

Unknown

I've seen several Hudsons with a Camaro subframe installed up front. Reasonably priced and has all the mounts for your SBC.

Browniepetersen

The 39 "Martz" Roadster that I am building will have the suspension provided by General Motors (mid 60's Corvette). Because of the "backyard chop job" completed on the car in 1952 it is necessary to reconfigure the frame and undercarriage. We are using a small format chevrolet pick up (chevy S10) for the basis. In the end it will be powered by a 1966 Corvette 327 with a 3/2's set up.

lsfirth

Browniepetersen wrote:

The 39 "Martz" Roadster that I am building will have the suspension provided by General Motors (mid 60's Corvette). Because of the "backyard chop job" completed on the car in 1952 it is necessary to reconfigure the frame and undercarriage. We are using a small format chevrolet pick up (chevy S10) for the basis. In the end it will be powered by a 1966 Corvette 327 with a 3/2's set up.

Yeah but Roger and Russell said it's a waist of time and money :-)

Just having fun....every project has it's "needs".....and your Martz has a lot of them :-) I can't wait to see the progress on this one.

I would agree with Roger and Russell that if a Hudson suspension was well maintained and functioning properly that a new clip wouldn't gain you much. But one that has been "let go" or damaged, then it starts making sense for a swap IMHO.

Lee

mrsbojigger

1980 Camaro Clip with LS1 engine

[Deleted User]

To each his own desire's of course. I have just run into many peaple that are too fast to place an "Old Hudson" in the same catagory as an "Old Chevy".
When I was litte Dad had a lot of 50-54 Chevy's. And I must admit I had a couple in high school myself. And going down the road at 55-60 mph , well you were realy pushing it. And I can see why a pearson would want to upgrade.
Yet I can put someone in one of my 60 year old Hudson's with radial tires. And cruise down the interstate 70 mph all day. Smooth as glass and the only way to tell it's heiritage is the drum brakes.
I just hate to see someone too quickly write off the original Hudson,
Roger

mrsbojigger

Suck it up Tallent! You are in "Hot Rod Territory" and WE LIKE TO CHANGE THINGS HERE. A Hudson is not a god to be worshipped, it's a piece of automotive machinery. 50 years after we are gone, it will be rusting into the ground and people won't even know what the heck it is. The fun is in the building and driving what you desire not being a slave to the "purists" ideology.
So! While you are sitting by the roadside wondering where you are going to get that hard to get part from I will be driving past you in luxury and comfort and good gas milage and still looking cool. If it breaks down in Podunk City Iowa, (no offense to Iowa) I can just go to my nearest Napa Auto Parts place or Chevy Dealership and get it repaired or serviced.
One last thing! As an old Indian once told me, "Lighten up and have fun".
Peace,
Chaz

hudsontech

Having driven just about anything with wheels over the years from 1930's to modern iron - and back-in-the-day (1950's) I can honestly say, about the 1935-1955 era cars, that having had one Hudson (1953 Hornet Sedan - in the 1970 era) that the Hudson drove much better and more stable at speed (I'm talking 65-85) than any of the comparable cars - Ford, Chebbie, Dodge, Plymouth, Chrysler (most of those wallowed like whales). I admit that I haven't owned or driven 1935-1955 cars like Packard, Cadillac or Lincolns simply because they usually were over my budget. Most of my cars were resurrected from junk yards and most of the Dodges & Plymouths were coupes with small block 241 hemi's in them - but otherwise stock.

That said, would I up-grade some of those Dodge & Plymouth coupes if I were to build another today. You dammed (that should get by the censors) right I would - at least to the point of disc brakes, at least on the front. And probably would spring for racing quality at that.

Back in the 50's we could get away with dropping a motor like a small block hemi - or even a big block, if we could have afforded it (not many of those in the junkyard :P ) and run the rest of the car pretty much stock simply because there wasn't the traffic congestion of today. After 5pm pretty much everybody was off the road and home with family while us rebels were out raising cain with the local constabulary. We didn't have to worry to much about stopping. Not so in todays world. Stopping is even more important today.

The bottom line comes down to this - I'm not going to knock anybody who "modernizes up" his Hudson. If it's going to be driven a lot, like most every day, it's imperative to up-grade for safety. The roads are to crowded for 1950's (1940's era is a horror story) technology, if you think of it that way. And it still comes down to the fact that, modern or not, that Hudson is still on the road instead of being turned into Japanese cars.

My soap box for the day.

Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN

mrsbojigger

Alex,
Thank you!
Peace,
Chaz

lsfirth

I think great points have been made here...safety certainly should be a priority. Early replies suggested that some of the upgrades are a waist of time and money, which certainly could be true to some extent, but if this were the case, it would be hard to justify any of the things we do to our beloved projects if you really think about it. The bottom line is that the Hudsons are beauties and we take great pride in putting and keeping them on the road!!

Lee

Browniepetersen

lsfirth wrote:

Browniepetersen wrote:

The 39 "Martz" Roadster that I am building will have the suspension provided by General Motors (mid 60's Corvette). Because of the "backyard chop job" completed on the car in 1952 it is necessary to reconfigure the frame and undercarriage. We are using a small format chevrolet pick up (chevy S10) for the basis. In the end it will be powered by a 1966 Corvette 327 with a 3/2's set up.

Yeah but Roger and Russell said it's a waist of time and money :-)

Just having fun....every project has it's "needs".....and your Martz has a lot of them :-) I can't wait to see the progress on this one.

I would agree with Roger and Russell that if a Hudson suspension was well maintained and functioning properly that a new clip wouldn't gain you much. But one that has been "let go" or damaged, then it starts making sense for a swap IMHO.

Lee

I guess if I were thinking logically with money as the motivation I would go out and find a Country Club coupe and turn the Martz back into a true convertible. It would most likely be a good investment. But what the HECK--I think everyone should have at liest one "one of a kind car," one all original restoration, and a Hot Rod or Custom just to have around the house and have folks say "What is that?" At this point in my life money is not the issue. Engineering, Creativity and a challenge makes it a bit more pleasant to get up and go out into the shop. The last few cars I have done have been just for the fun of it. A lot better than, way back in the day, when I had to fix my daily driver to go to work the next day or to go on a date.... Life is good and logic is logic, What more can I say?

RL Chilton

Well, obviously I haven't been on the street rod section for a while.

Lee-
For the record, I don't disagree with anything you posted. On the contrary I couldn't agree more.

Hope y'all don't think I'm a purist stickler, I'm really not. I'm just in the middle of an original restoration right now, so from time to time I might lose sight of the bigger picture.

Alex has the most prudent point, in that safety has to be the biggest factor in this day and age. There is just so much traffic now, compared to 60 years ago, added to the fact that we drive differently than we used to even 30 years ago, that certainly safety should be a serious consideration in whether or not to modernize or "upgrade".

Parts availability is certainly an important point. Modernizing simply will make that easier, not just out in the sticks, but really anywhere in America. Broken down cars on the side of the road aren't really much fun anywhere.

In the end, as I always tell folks: It's your car, do what you want to do with it, drive it, enjoy the hell out of it. We should all just marvel at how many Hudsons are still out there and on the road at all, original or not.

So in that vein, I beg everyone's pardon for being a snot-nose on the Street Rod section.

Ol racer

mrsbojigger wrote:

1980 Camaro Clip with LS1 engine

A Very Nice looking Update coming together.....

[Deleted User]

When you change engines to modern iron, you better have the serial number of the chassis it came from. No dealer can work on it without it. We had a Hudson guy that installed a corvette engine, broke down on a trip, towed to a Chevy dealer and was told must have the serial number to repair your engine. Good thing the junk yard still had the body, took him 2 weeks to get his car back, and his wallet empty, and when home sold it right away. I'll take my cross country Hudson driver. Walt.

lsfirth

RL Chilton wrote:

Well, obviously I haven't been on the street rod section for a while.

Lee-
For the record, I don't disagree with anything you posted. On the contrary I couldn't agree more.

Hope y'all don't think I'm a purist stickler, I'm really not. I'm just in the middle of an original restoration right now, so from time to time I might lose sight of the bigger picture.

Alex has the most prudent point, in that safety has to be the biggest factor in this day and age. There is just so much traffic now, compared to 60 years ago, added to the fact that we drive differently than we used to even 30 years ago, that certainly safety should be a serious consideration in whether or not to modernize or "upgrade".

Parts availability is certainly an important point. Modernizing simply will make that easier, not just out in the sticks, but really anywhere in America. Broken down cars on the side of the road aren't really much fun anywhere.

In the end, as I always tell folks: It's your car, do what you want to do with it, drive it, enjoy the hell out of it. We should all just marvel at how many Hudsons are still out there and on the road at all, original or not.

So in that vein, I beg everyone's pardon for being a snot-nose on the Street Rod section.

Hey Russell...no harm no foul....all just good discussion!!! I certainly appreciate the all original restorations as well as the "resto-mods". I just love it all really. I was certainly drooling at the national in spokane this summer with a good mix of mostly originals but some hot-rods!!!

Regards,
Lee

mrsbojigger

Walt,
I have all that!
Peace,
Chaz

[Deleted User]

Just wait till you have to take it to a Chevy dealer to have some repair done, better have your bank in your pocket. Being a Hot Rod they go by their own charge, not the flat rate manual. Walt.

lsfirth

walts garage-53 wrote:

Just wait till you have to take it to a Chevy dealer to have some repair done, better have your bank in your pocket. Being a Hot Rod they go by their own charge, not the flat rate manual. Walt.

Yeah I suppose you'd be way better off just pulling into the Hudson dealer!!

mrsbojigger

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.....!
Vereeeeey Funny!

[Deleted User]

I guess I must look at things differently when it comes to my Hudson. I keep it in good shape , drive it where I want ,when I want. And I go as far as I want. I never realy planned my trip's around "Breakdown's" . But then it's a Hudson Not a Ford or GM. So I suppose that's what towing insurance is for,
Roger

mrsbojigger

Hello Roger,
I wasn't trying to get into a pissing match with you. I would probably like you in person and sit down with you for a beer or whatever is your preferred beverage. I was just irked by someone coming over into the "hot rod" section and pushing their purist ideas on us. Just remember that it was YOUR group that treats us like the proverbial STEP CHILD and stuck us OFF into a separate category so you wouldn't have to deal with our desecrating their hallowed Hudsons. We weren't the ones that segregated ourselves from the group. When I first joined the forum, I innocently asked some questions about modifying my newly acquired car that had been sitting outside in the elements in rainy Oregon since the '70s. Sometimes I believe the only thing that was holding the body together was the paint and caulking. Over 90% of the frame and lower portion of the body including the floor and firewall had to be built from scratch. Only the upper portion of the rear hump over the rear axle was saved. So here i was, a perfectly innocent newby asking a perfectly innocent set of questions and a couple of your mean-spirited guys totally ripped into me like a pack of hungry wild jackals on a dead wildebeest. I was so emotionally hurt that it was a long time before i ventured back to see what was happening in the wonderful world of Hudsons so I could get some help. Now here was the dilemma! Being the perfectionist that I am, how could I find perfectly good original sheet metal that was stamped out during the original production run to replace the bad stuff. To carry the step further, I should as a restorer, insert impregnated horse hair into the frame so that in time it will rust out the "new" original sheet metal just as it did the old? I should also make sure that the newly restored car leaks in ALL the places the original car leaked. Should I use crappy chrome on the horizontal piece of the grill which seems to rust quicker than the other pieces so it will do the same thing in time as the original? And the list goes on and on. The engine in the car was rusted away inside of it since it went thru so many cold and wet winters. I love old cars that have been restored but this one didn't make it. It's like some people, some live a long healthy life while others like our 13 year old grandson dies much too soon.
Have a great day and Peace,
Chaz

50Commodore

I felt like I wanted to comment in here. Early on with my Hudson project, which is still a long way from being near done, I made up my mind it was going to be a custom restoration and not a full on genuine 100% restoration. My car and my choice but I knew there would be those who would frown upon changing the originality of the car. Even the guy I was able to get it from was afraid I would make it into a Hot Rod and almost didn't let me take ownership of the car over that fact.
When the work started on the car I never changed my mind about how I wanted the car to be. On a trip to Bill Albrights place to pick up a rear window I showed him photos of my car and he knew what I was going to do with. I thought, "oh boy here it comes" and I'd get a verbal beating for daring to do a custom and instead I got nothing but positive encouragement from Mr. Albright. That really surprised me and really made me recognize that he realized why some people go the custom route. Even though purists hate changing the original, isn't it better to get another Hudson on the road than let it rot away in a barn or field somewhere?
Even having some custom Hudsons out there may bring in an audience of a younger crowd into the fold some day, right? And isn't that a good thing?

lsfirth

Thanks for sharing 50commodore....this is starting to sound like an AA meeting....but along those same lines, when I started my project I intentionally looked for an example that was "too far gone" to do a full on restoration just because I wouldn't be able to sleep an night know that I cut up a perfectly fine car. I found the ideal vehicle that was essentially gutted and had been sitting on farm land since 1956. Some rust, some damage, some missing parts, but would cost a fortune to properly "restore". So now I'm turning it into a "sled".....a style of car that I've always wanted....but the great thing is that another Hudson will be on the road rather than withering away where no one could enjoy it!!!

Lee

[Deleted User]

If you build it right, like I did mine and in 12 years have driven it as of today, 134,055 miles, with 11 trips from San Francisco, CA to Goshen, CT and 1 to Winter Haven, FL and has never let me down. When you drive yours that far let me know. Walt.

Unknown

I have seen several of the Camaro/Nova subframes used. They are almost a bolt in, so I was told.