Stepdown starter woes

BillUSN1

Thanks,
I haven't seen any pics yet.
I don't think anything copied over from the previous site.

Ol racer

FYI
I adapted the Mopar Mini Starter twice using scrap metal lying in the garage and both have worked fine during our summer months for few Yrs. (Winters here our cars are stored) However, a better Mini Mopar Adaptor was made by Grim Greaser in a Bridgeport.

Walt's Mini Starter is a proven way to go too, and in addition, there is a Company in Utah that previously adapted a HD Nepitenso Starter for a Hudson Owner for his Hydro. I talked with that Shop and they were supposed to call when they had a batch ready but they probably got busy with their regular Business.. Perhaps you could call them to see where they are on the next batch of Mini Starters for Hudson then Post to let everyone know. 801 467 2902

GrimGreaser

Here are some pictures of my starter. Started with a 1/4 aluminum plate, which was too thin. Made a backer plate out of some 3/8. Stiff enough now. The problem I had was doing this thing with the engine and transission in the car. Think I did pretty good, given that... Don't mind the buggered teeth... All part of working the bugs out.

BillUSN1

Thanks Grim.

So the 1/4 was fine for spacer thickness but the aluminum wasn't stiff enough.

Racer,
The only reference I found from Walt (above) was he mentioned a 50 ford starter that took lots of machining.
Does he have a web site?

Park_W

Bill, here's a shop in TX that can properly convert your starter to 12v:  Ken Warner at Classic Generators, in TX.  (817) 473-1448; e-mail kennethw@classicgenerator.com.

Ol racer

FYI

Ironically, Snap Starter Co called me today and said they have some New Nentenso Mini Starters for Hudson ready to sell. He said they will send pictures, pricing, and more Info later today then I will Post..

GrimGreaser

Cool. Interested to see them.

BillUSN1

I got off the phone about an hour ago with Terry.

I was waiting on the pics before I posted.

He has 2 on the shelf for $325 with free shipping.

He orders the machined adapters in batches so it depends on what orders he has to how many are in stock.

The starter is all new not a reman.



Here's his email.



I assume your Chuck?



"

I have attached some photos of this starter it is 12 volt made to replace the MCH6204 if my info is right it should also work for the MCH6107, MCH6201 and MCH6205.



These starters are made from a 100% New OEM Real Nippon Denso Starter, NOT CHINESE, Do not let the size fool you these have twice the power as the original starter, Price on these will be $325.00 I will ship in the US Free by USPS Priority Mail and International the same for $59.50.



The starter does come with a simple wire kit and instructions as you can see in one of the photos



Thank You,



Terry




Terry A. Pittman

Snap Rebuilders

2140 South West Temple.
South Salt Lake, UT 84115
Phone: 801-467-2902
Fax: 801-467-2900

"

Glowplug

Bill, here's a shop in TX that can properly convert your starter to 12v:  Ken Warner at Classic Generators, in TX.  (817) 473-1448; e-mail kennethw@classicgenerator.com.

For those who are looking for another endorsement of Ken Warner.. I endorse him.  Ken provided the correct 12 volt field coils for a Hudson Wasp and Hudson Hornet standard starter.  I suspect that these field coils are the same for the automatic starters, but do not know for sure.  The armature in the starter is the same 6 or 12 volt. So, I replaced the bushings and gave the original starters a complete cleaning and check before swapping the field coils. I am very pleased with the outcome.  Both engines start with the initial key turn. No more banging the flywheel and all the torque needed to crank those engines over.  My experience.

BillUSN1

Park, Oldfarmer, thanks for the info.
I may end up going that way, just don't know yet.
I do know when I run my 6v starter on 12v, it definitely slams the flywheel if it hits and misses.


Here are the pics from Terry at Snap.

Kdancy

On ebay-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HUDSON-WASP-Hydra-Matic-12-Volt-Gear-Reduction-Conversion-Starter-/271459448470?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f343e7696&vxp=mtr

BillUSN1

That makes sense. EBay fees are about 10%.

Ol racer

FYI
That was a fast reply from the contact number I posted for Snap Rebuilders Wedesday to get the pictures Posted. Snap made an earlier Mini starter Adapter last Fall that worked well then tweaked their initial Adaptor then nachined and built a number of Starters over the winter. They look excellent and I hope we take advantage of Snap's efforts. They even can be rotated if necessary. Rebuilding the heavy OEM Hudson Starter isnt Cheap. The last 12V Starter I took in to have completly rebuilt was over $200.The all new Snap Mini Starter bought Direct is $325 Shipping included in domestic USA.

RL Chilton

Has anyone tried one of these on their Hudson, yet?  

Ol racer

FYI

I built two Mini Starter's (Pictured) a few Yrs ago after learning Mopar had the 'same Pitch Ring Gear as Hudson' using a hack saw & die grinder that worked out well. I bolted my fabricated Adapter Plate onto the starter then read how to set Ring Gear clearance. One starter is on a Stroker Motor and one on a St Rod.

My Point is the Snap Starter is a brand New HD Nippon Denso (not a used Mopar), looks like the Adapter is better engineered & manufactured using modern CNC Machinery,(not a hacksaw), and appears adjustable, as well as clocking (rotating) ability if desired I would think it would work very well so I would buy one when needed rather than re- fabricating another adaptor....

Ol racer

FYI

 I failed to mention that 'someone' on this Forum had Snap Rebuilders build them a Mini Starter for their Hudson last Year that apparently worked out very well so he Posted Snap's Contact Info. One day I called the number he Posted out of curosity to learn that Snap would build more Mini Starters if any interest.

DavidC

Hite did my 6v to 12v conversion plus full rebuild for about $150, if I recall. I can say it turns her over very well.
Dave

briankarleyhotmailcouk

Hi,
it was probably me who posted the details of Snap last year. They built me a new mini starter which has been on my 53 hydramatic for about 9 months and is working well.
Cheers,
Brian.

DocHornet

After hearing all the horror stories of damaged 6V starters running on 12V, I decided to pull mine out and have it converted.  When I swapped out my automatic tranny for a manual overdrive 2 years ago, I used the crusty old starter that came with the donor car, yet it seemed to function okay, and the starter bendix drive teeth were in pretty decent shape.

Now, certainly less than a thousand miles later, when I pulled that starter out, those teeth were seriously buggered up.  Haven't had the heart to look at my ring gear yet.

Fortunately, the shop here in Austin, Texas Alternator, was able to find a replacement bendix, and proper 12V windings, so I should be good to go with that.  While I was at it, I've had them convert the 6V starter in my 1940 Caddy.. I've also been running it with a 12V system for some 2 years.

JasonNC

This conversation is over two years old.  I'm wanting to put a mini starter on my latest acquisition, a 49 Super Six.  I have a homemade mini starter on my 48 Commodore, but don't want to go through the hassle of trying to fabricate another one.  If this starter is still available, why wouldn't it work on a straight drive Hudson as well as on a Hydramatic?  

RichardD

Jason, guess we can add late to this old post. I can't imagine what kind of wire these guys are using from the solenoid to the starter, etc.  I only get 9 volts to my 6 volt starter when it is cranking and it has been running on 12+ volts for about 8+ years without slamming or any other problem.  I also start within about 2 seconds or less.
Good to see you and the car last month !!
I do have a gear reduction accessary starter on my Austin Healey and it does very good.

R

JasonNC

So how do you reduce the voltage to the six volt starter?  I would leave the six volt in place if I knew it wouldn't break all the teeth from the flywheel because it did a great job of cranking the old girl.  

RichardD

The current draw reduces the voltage. I use a 12 volt cable and not the original large 6 volt cable. Surely you have a voltmeter; connect it to the starter terminal and to ground then get a wire and touch the + connection on the solenoid to the + on the battery --leave ignition off. It only takes a moment to read the meter. Tell us what you see.

SuperDave

JasonNC said:

This conversation is over two years old.  I'm wanting to put a mini starter on my latest acquisition, a 49 Super Six.  I have a homemade mini starter on my 48 Commodore, but don't want to go through the hassle of trying to fabricate another one.  If this starter is still available, why wouldn't it work on a straight drive Hudson as well as on a Hydramatic?

  

Manual transmission starter drive is behind the ring gear and moves forward to engage the flywheel. The HydraMatic starter drive is in front of the ring gear and moved rearward to engage. Two different animals.. Not to mention the pitch of the ring gear.

JasonNC

Dave, I know that the two different animals engage differently.  The homemade mini starter that I have on the 48 engages from the front.  I was just wondering if the Denso starter would engage from the front on a straight drive without having to modify the plate that attaches to the bell housing.  As far as the pitch of the ring gear was concerned, I simply filed the teeth on the ring gear to make them bevelled from the front.  The mini starter on the Commodore works real well.  I'm just trying to see if I can get a similar set up on the Super Six without too much of a hassle.