Interest for 32/33 T-plane 6/8 "new" water pumps?

faustmb

Just posting a feeeler here to gauge if there would be any interest in recast 1932 /33 Terraplane 6&8 water pumps. I know of at least one guy that needs one, and they seem to be impossible to find. I have a OE pump and would use it for the template. This could go either way, a finished pump or just housing and impeller castings.

If you may be interested, please reply and provide a general idea of what you may be willing to pay? Initial quotes were over $1000.00 for a single unit, which I feel is way too high and most people would not pay (myself included). I am hoping that maybe interest in 10 or so could get the price down and we could get some spares in circulation.

Thanks,
Matt

Marconi

One problem with these pumps is that the pulleys crack and 'fall apart' You can usually find the casting and rebuild kits but the pulley is made of unobtanium!

Geoff

According to the parts catalogs, the same pump was used on '32-'33 Terraplane 6 & 8, and on '33 Hudson 6, so that widens your potential base a little as to those who could be interested.

Terraplane33

Marconi wrote:

One problem with these pumps is that the pulleys crack and 'fall apart' You can usually find the casting and rebuild kits but the pulley is made of unobtanium!

that's probably what happened to my car and the reason I have a brand new radiator...

Terraplane33

I'm interested in 2 recast housings and impellers
I will be able to arrange a spare unit for later, seen how difficult it is to find such a pump...

faustmb

Marconi wrote:

One problem with these pumps is that the pulleys crack and 'fall apart' You can usually find the casting and rebuild kits but the pulley is made of unobtanium!

Yes, my pulley was damaged and poorly re-welded (off center). It is good enough for a pattern though. I think a machined version would be more stronger, or possibly a modified casting to improve strength.

Would you happne to have a core pump or know where to locate one (sans pulley) for "Terraplane33 " ?

Terraplane33

if someone could make a draft of the original pulley, I could get one machined locally
I do not have the original one...

53jetman

I have seen replacement '32-'33 water pumps with the same style pulley used on the later Terraplanes & Hudsons. Did not purchase at the time, but deffinately should have bought one for my own stock.

Jerry

Unknown

I would be a buyer. I am in the beginning phase of tearing down my '33 six. Hasn't seen the road since the 1940's!

faustmb

Looks like someone added that extension for improved cooling?

Terraplane33

I guess it's a 6 cylinder engine as there is not enough space on my 8 cylinder for such a 'long neck'
I thought the 6 cylinders had a shorter wheelbase so it also could be that this is a 6 cylinder engine in a 8 cylinder car ? The experts will tell us !!;)

Terraplane33

53jetman wrote:

I have seen replacement '32-'33 water pumps with the same style pulley used on the later Terraplanes & Hudsons. Did not purchase at the time, but deffinately should have bought one for my own stock.

Jerry

Do you think a 39 Terraplane pulley would fit on an ET33 eight ? I should get one soon from southern France

Unknown

Terraplane33 wrote:

I guess it's a 6 cylinder engine as there is not enough space on my 8 cylinder for such a 'long neck'
I thought the 6 cylinders had a shorter wheelbase so it also could be that this is a 6 cylinder engine in a 8 cylinder car ? The experts will tell us !!;)

My car is a long wheel base six, essentially a ET 8 with a 6 engine! THere is also a blank area in the louvers closest to the radiator shell. look below!

[Deleted User]

Nice solid looking car for its age, Almost looks like you could put gas in and drive it away,
Roger

Geoff

The l.w.b. sixes '33-35 had an extension bolted on the front pulley to extend the fan forward to the radiator. Must have put lots of extra stress on the bearings!

Terraplane33

I learned something more today !

Yes your lwb looks very solid

The water pumps seems to be identical to the 8

StillOutThere

There were three models of '33 Essex-Terraplane: The Model K was a 6 cyl on a 106" wheelbase (as were all '32 E-Ts). The Model KU was a 6 cyl on the 113" wheelbase. The Model KT was an eight cylinder on the 113" wheelbase. There were two or three(?) different 8 cyl. radiators employed during the year with V-cut cores to make room for the longer 8 cyl engine.

53jetman

Terraplane 33 - The picture with the extension on the pulley is for the longer WB T6 introduced sometime after the original '33 announcement date. I would guess you might be able to press fit a later pulley on the original '33 pump shaft. Youshould be able to tell by measuring the shaft.

Jerry

ivanz62

I also would buy a 33 complete pump for my 33ET 8 Cv. I would think it great if someone could gather orders, take deposits, and make sure they were properly done. Whoever did that work ought to get a free pump out of the deal! I had float bowls cast for 29 Hudson Marvel carbs a year ago and we're still trying to get the parts finished a year later!
Ivan

Terraplane33

I wouldn't mind to arrange this for free for all Hudson Essex Terraplane friends but additional shipping costs from overseas would not be of interest, most orders will be placed in the United States so it makes more sense to get the job done there.
Other people are doing also a lot of work for our community without any benefit, I'm thinking mainly about Alex as I don't know many members yet.

StillOutThere

I don't think I'm mistaken that at least half or more of the existing '33 E-Terraplanes are outside of the US. It isn't going to make any difference where they get made; it will make a huge difference IF they get made.

Terraplane33

yes and I hope they will be made...
it would be interesting to have a list on know Essex Terraplanes, I know there are at least 2 un France, a green/black six + mine...
I saw the green/black ona for sale, here is a picture :




if my learnings are correct this one looks lie a LWB, right ?

Unknown

You pass! 100%, good eye!

terraplane8

I'd be a starter for one too. Mine has been messed around with and is leaking again I have noticed.

faustmb

Thats not too bad, it sounds like maybe 5-6 would have homes right away. I think I could safely predict that double that would be used as spares etc., assuming pricing is right.

As far as the pulleys, maybe someone can clear this up. The 33 pulley is majorly offset, meaning the belt rides back over the pump shaft. Will the newer pulleys accomadate this? I have what I think is a '35 model pump, and it is drastically different. I'm thinking this would be a custom part. I can get estimates on machined versions of these which should be stronger than OE.

I don't mind heading up this effort, I have an OE pump and there seem to be some good casting outfits that I can try to get pricing going with.

Terraplane33

Great Job Matt !! Keep on going with this !

StillOutThere

For comparison /contrast, attached is a photo from the '34 Terraplane Showroom Salesman's Presentation Album of the 1934 waterpump.

faustmb

Hey guys , still working on this. I finally made a puller ( or pusher) to remove the main pump shaft. The last thing to do is press out the bushings before I can send it to the casting house for a final quote. I'm also working on machined pulley quotes. I think the the pulley will be pricey, a CNC order or 10 or so should bring the price way down. Lots of cutting required to keep the weight down on these. Any thoughts on the pulley material, aluminum vs steel? I have original versions of both, both steel are cracked,both aluminum are good. You can guess my thoughts...

ivanz62

I am still on for a complete pump. The pulley material should be steel as my original. It is so light that I doubt an aluminum one would be strong enough. Are the broken steel ones a result of being worked on as opposed to failure in service? I am sure that any machinist would want to make them in aluminum because its easier. I will take one either way.
Rhanks for moving forward.
Ivan

faustmb

Ivan, I don't know how the steel ones failed, but both were broken and welded where they connect to the shaft. Im guessing the old cast steel is pretty brittle, especially with the offset load. For ease of machining and increased strength, I plan to use a solid hub vs spokes, which will increase mass also. It won't look 100% original, but will be stronger. I plan to prototype with aluminum, but could make them out of steel too.

I think the most difficult / expensive aspect of new pumps will be the inner bushing/ shaft seal housing. These will be pricey to machine if I can't find an off the shelf replacement. I'll post some pics tonight.

Matt

[Deleted User]

Anyone concidered coming up with a more modern item to fit . Hudson would have replaced a problem item,
Roger