Bear Claw latches

jjbubaboy

Hey,
I am thinking about putting Bear Claws on my 36T. Has anyone done this?
How difficult would it be? Can it be done?
Thanks,
Jeff

RL Chilton

Because the suicide doors are worrisome?

bob ward

I've had it done for me on a Morris 8 (suicide doors with unbelievably primitive catches) by a guy who did a lot of rod work, so it was standard fare for him. I had the catches in and out of the doors a couple times while painting etc and I was always impressed with the amount of thought he had had to put into the details of the job.

Mounting the striker on the door pillar and marrying the catch into the door was job one. Job two, and this was the clever part, was creating the linkages to reliably connect the Morris door handles to the new (80's Nissan I think) catches.

I'm sure its doable for a 36T, but if 'twere me I would be studying different types of door catches and figuring out the linkages before I started cutting and welding.

Geoff

Bear claws????

SuperDave

Geoff, They are aftermarket door latches that are the current rage among rodders. I have seen them on EBay.

bob ward

The bear claw door catch is one of the styles of anti-burst door locks that have been in use in the car industry since anti-bursts were made compulsory. Essentially there is a loop on the door pillar and the catch has 2 opposing 'claws' that engage the loop from top and bottom.

[Deleted User]

The bear claw latch is very secure. We used them to replce unreliable factory ones on big 5 foot doors on shipping containers. Two of these could easily hold the load in wich may easily be 1500 lbs.

Ol racer

FYI

I believe there now is a smaller Bear Claw Latch available on the Market....

Geoff

I've had my Essex with front opening doors for 58 years, and never had one fly open, so I don't think I'll fit them. I don't know why they got the moniker "suicide doors" . Think about it, it would be far easier to jump out with a rear-opening door. Try it and see!

RL Chilton

That's true, Geoff. But I have heard several stories about folks (especially kids) that opened a "suicide" door at high speed and didn't let go of the door. It's one thing to open it and let go but to open one at 70 and not let go . . .

Park_W

I'm with Geoff. The solution with suicide doors follows the TV comedy doctor's recommendation . . . "If it hurts when you do that, then don't do that!"

StillOutThere

Many of you will remember Hudson enthusiast Norris Smith of SW Chicago. Norris was driving down one of the main interstate routes on the west side of the city with the usual significant heavy traffic. Two or three of his kids were in the back seat of their '40 Hudson sedan with, yes, rear opening or so-called "suicide" doors. The kids were playing as kids inevitably will. One of them grabbed a inside rear door handle and hung on as the door started to open. The 50 mile an hour air rush of course flung the door open and flung the boy out into the nearby traffic lane. Chaos ensued but all drivers were able to avoid hitting the child and within a month or so all scrapes had healed. And Norris body worked the door and rear fender back to health as well. He SOLD that car.
So it wasn't "suicide" but it is the reason car makers finally, FINALLY stopped building rear opening doors on cars. Was the last so-built from Ford (the '61-67 Continental 4 doors)? Was this ever put into federal motor vehicle statutes?

jjbubaboy

Yes, falling out isnt as much of a concern as the damage from accidental opening. So the safety is primary as well as the easier closing of the door without the hard 'slam' needed for stock, and the wear that the last 77 years has put on them.
They do make a 'small' version as well.
But I will do much research before I don ANY cutting!
Jeff

bob ward

A secondary benefit that I've discovered with the use of bearclaw catches is that they hold the door TIGHT, they take all the vertical movement out of the door edge. A great rattle stopper.

Geoff

So there must be some engineering involved to fit these? From where does one obtain these miraculous devices?

bob ward

Geoff, my particular catches I believe came from an 80s Nissan. The car industry has been using these catches or something like them for the last 30 or 40 years, they are very common and available at all good wrecking yards.

Fitting the catch to the door and the striker to the pillar is relatively straightforward. Making the catch work flawlessly from the original handles is the clever part.

[Deleted User]

40 Hudsons had rear opening doors, so how can the wind grab it and fling it open. Walt.

[Deleted User]

Geoff , they are found in HotRod magazines and websites for Street Rod parts.

Geoff

Oh, that's why I have never seen them. Last rod magazine I saw was back about 1960 I think.

jjbubaboy

HeY Geoff,
I have looked at several sets on Ebay. An installation kit is also needed, of course at an additional cost.
I also came across an ad from a company at www.gearheadworld.com
that listed the latches and installation kit together for $65. That seems to be in the range I have seen from $50-$65 and up for the large ones.
Bob, brings up another great idea as far as retro fitting a modern version at quite a bit less cost.
Either way the latch and lock rigging will need ingenuity but I think less cutting and welding would be involved with that route.
Thanks Bob!
I was looking at the ones on my 91 Ranger and they seem pretty simple. Hmmm.......
Jeff

SuperDave

Walt, Maybe the back doors?

bent metal

jjbubaboy, yes I've done that. No it's not that hard to do. I used the bear claw, large version. Although I like the looks of the car door posted above better than what I ended up doing. But that one looks to be a smaller version of a factory type mechanism. Mine was after-market 'bear claw' brand. Also heavy duty aftermarket hinges.
There are all of the concerns above in regards to the suicide doors. But also, if you don't get the door closed all the way, the first turn you make could open the door. The natural reaction is for your wife to try and grab the door, as your still making the turn and she gets yanked out onto the pavement. ...So, yeah she should of had her seat belt on. But a better idea is to use the safety pins. There are several differnt kinds. But they lock the door in closed position so it can't even open with the handle. Some ingage with the ignition, some with the shifter, some are manual. I suppose you could get creative and make it ingage however you want. But that's the answer to it coming open at the wrong time.
The car I did was a '47 that I changed to a '41. Removed the internal running boards and added external and a little custom running boards. Suicide the doors, which were too large to use the 'small' bear claws. Both in hinge and latch. I also widened and splayed the rear fenders, so they don't have that tucked under stock look. And the usual rusted out floor pans.
Wanna see? ...Of course you do.

bent metal

Hope I haven't hi-jacked this thread. Here is a before and after, and a pic of the splayed out rear fenders.

bent metal

Ahh! Can't get the before and after to post. But it's all on here in another thread. Called "suicide solution", maybe some one can link that thread? I think I go into more detail, and it's been a while. So I'm sure I don't remember the difficulties involved anymore.

MikeWA

When I was about 5, I opened the back door of our '40 Chev. Luckily, mom was in town, going about 25, so door wasn't really flung open by the wind, but definitely opened, with me hanging on. I yelled, mom hit the brakes, which brought the door (and me) back smartly. No harm done, lesson learned.

jjbubaboy

Hey Bent Metal,
WOW! As usual and from all of the pics I have seen that is some very nice and beautiful work!
I have some abilities but definately not that kind of talent, but thats what keeps me wanting to try things and get better at them. Your inspiration and my desire make a great combination!
Thank you,
Jeff

bent metal

Glad you liked it!
I'd like to see pictures as you go along. If I could make a suggestion, the latch isn't that big of a deal. Just have to find a relatively flat area within' the jamb, that is in the middle of the door. So when you close the door it closes evenly. Maybe add a doubler on both surfaces, that kind of thing. If you know what I mean. You wouldn't want the latch to be overly high or low, obveously. But where the work is going to be is in the b-pillar/hinge side. It's not strong enough to just weld in hinges and go. If you tried to do that, when you open the door to it's full swing, the b-pillar would twist. Boxing in the pillar didn't seem to be enough in my case. That just transfered the twist further away from the hinges, but the pillar still twisted. Just closer to the floor on one end, closer to the roof on the other end. There is just too much leverage from the door. So what I did is make a connection from the inside of the hinge to the rear wheel well/quarter panel. Triangulating it. Now I had two panels holding the pillar from twisting. The one I added, which is in a door panel area, and the outside existing quarter panel (from b-pillar to rear wheel opening). Hope I didn't make that too confusing. ...Now you have to do something similar to the inside of the door at the hinge. Because you have the same leverage situation on both sides of that hinge. The pillar side, and the door side. The hinges do have a limiter of the door swing. But it's so close to the pivot point, and even if it were out further, you still want something additional to keep the door from flexing at the hinge, and the pillar from twisting. Once the pillar is done I sorta' spread out the load into the door, on the door side. The danger is when the door is opened too far, and or too hard.
Let me see if I can link to the pictures.
http://www.classiccar.com/forum/discussion/80169/suicide-solution/p1

bent metal

Oh, I did another one with the suicide door. But I used the small hinge set-up. For the latch I used a factory Hudson latch. It was a small door though. For you, you need to make your own hinge, or use the large hinge for a door that size. I would think.
Below is the hinge before and after the inner door panel piece. The inner panel is what took the flex out of the door, as you can see. I made that little door so the window could be made to roll up and down, and use the factory door latch, handle and mechanism with drag link. All Hudson, just shorter drag link because the size of the door.

TwinH

Safety pins? :-? ) )

bob ward

Mr Bean

Geoff

And you only need a screwdriver to remove it!