1917 or 1919 Hudson Doctors Coupe

acosgrove

I just purchased a 1917 or 1919 Hudson (Coupe?) - somebody told me it was a "Doctor's Coupe - I can't find any internet pictures of this vehicle - I have a brochure on the early super six models but my vehicle isn't detailed as one of the models - can someone help me to identify what model I have

46HudsonPU

Pictures of your car would help, a whole bunch...

acosgrove

How do I post pictures

acosgrove

can I email or text the pictures to you - I don't know how to post the pictures

Jon B

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acosgrove

acosgrove

acosgrove

ESSX28-1

Very nice!!

ESSX28-1

Maybe try Butler's book History of Hudson ' for an ID

46HudsonPU

Very nice!  Am looking at the 'Butler Book', and this appears to be a 1920 Hudson Super-Six 4-Passenger Coupe.  I am not an 'expert' on these earlier Hudson vehicles (by any means), so...
Maybe a serial number will help (?).  It should be on the engine firewall (I think) -

acosgrove

The car title shows 1917
The engine block has a 1919 casting number on it

acosgrove

Where can I get a gas tank built like the original tank ?

46HudsonPU

acosgrove said:

The car title shows 1917
The engine block has a 1919 casting number on it

According to the book, Hudson did not make a 4-Passenger Coupe until 1918 (at least not a 'Hudson Super-Six').  In the description of the 1918 coupe, they indicate that the front wheels were '10 spoke' and the rear wheels were '12 spoke' - your front wheels appear to be 12-spoke (?) - this too, could well have been changed, etc., over the years.
For a vehicle that old, it also would not be uncommon to replace the engine.  As far as I know, serial numbers on engines did not match the vehicle serial numbers, until much later (mid-late 40's, I believe) - so that may not be a 'make or break' identifier. 
Someone will come along, and be able to 'quickly' identify the year of this car, and most likely point you in the right direction for a gas tank (knock on wood).

acosgrove

Thanks for your help

AnnaCarin

acosgrove,

Your car looks very nice!

I've pieced together some additional information from various pages in Don Butler's book, that I hope will help.

He points out that the 4-passenger coupe in the Series O had four hinges on each door (like yours), while the Series M which preceded it had three hinges.

How the series translate into years:
1918 fiscal year: The Series M started on December 1, 1917. The first serial number for the Series M was M-5000.
1919 fiscal year: The ongoing Series M of 1918 automatically became a 1919 series with the start of the 1919 fiscal year on December 1, 1918. Series M was replaced by the Series O (with numerous changes) in May 1919. The first serial number for the Series O was O-5000.
1920 fiscal year: On December 1, 1919, new serial numbers were introduced; there were three series (10-0, 11-0 and 12-0). The first serial number was 10-0-5000.

So, the four door hinges and the 1919 engine suggest it's a Series O, i.e. made between May and November in 1919. I second looking for the vehicle's serial number. Failing that, you might want to check its weight - Butler says the Series M 4-passenger coupe weighed 3,450 lb, the Series O weighed 3,530 pounds, and in 1920 it weighed 3,620 lb. That might give a clue, although I assume that repairs, replacements, and missing parts could affect the weight.

Re the title showing 1917, is it possible that the car had lost its original paperwork over time, and that a previous owner has got a replacement title for the car in order to put it back on the road, but wasn't sure about the year and got it wrong? (I may have got the terminology wrong, but I hope you see what I mean.)

acosgrove

acosgrove

AnnaCarin

Thank you for your help - attached is a picture of the VIN tag - does this help to identify the year.

Andy

AnnaCarin

Andy,

Congratulations on finding the VIN tag! So, it says Model 7_O and Car # 58462.

I found a reference list of serial numbers at Glowplug's site, see https://hudsonrestoration1948-54.com/Serial Numbers HET CARS.pdf . On page 6 a footnote says that there were models 5M and 6M in 1918 (i.e. two subseries of the Series M ). I didn't spot any corresponding information for the Series O, but as 1920 had 10-0, 11-0 and 12-0 according to Butler, it makes sense to fill in the sequence with 7, 8 and 9 for 1919. I.e., it seems that Series O had three subseries named 7_O, 8_O and 9_O.

I assume 7_O would've been the first one, beginning in May 1919. And the serial numbers for 4-p. coupes in the Series O were in the 58000 to 58999 range, according to the same file (plus, numbers below 58900 would be left-hand drive, if I understand correctly).

acosgrove

Did people refer to this vehicle as a "Doctor's Coupe" - the passengers seat is very small and folds into the firewall

AnnaCarin

The Internet seems to think "doctor's coupe" is a later name, i.e. car companies didn't use it for such cars at the time. It's said to have been coined by a Ford Model T club member to denote a two-seater, and then maybe spilled over to other brands?

acosgrove

Interesting - thanks

faustmb

acosgrove said:

Did people refer to this vehicle as a "Doctor's Coupe" - the passengers seat is very small and folds into the firewall

I’ve been told that this jump sear arrangement was more commonly called an Opera Coupe , so the lady passenger could sit in the rear and have room for her gown on the way to the opera.  

Nice car ! 

acosgrove

Nice feature for the ladies

bent metal

Fantastic car!!

Toddh

I owned a 1920 4-passenger coupe.  Great car and a lot of power.  

acosgrove

Todd - Can you please send a couple of pictures of your 1920 - Thanks

Val

Nice Car!

Toddh

acosgrove

Sweet Ride ! ! !