Stirring The Pot: The Real Truth Hudson Resto Vs. Rod

rambos_ride

I love these discussions!

I'm probably going to "stir the pot" a bit - but here goes...:D

Hudson Rodding Truth vs. Fiction

I have been on this forum for nearly 2 years. In that time there has been only 1 Hudson (after inspections didn't reveal horrible rust probelms...) that I thought was a nice restoration candidate that someone was going to rod. This was a late 20's Essex and the person making the changes stated very eloquently their case for wanting a reliable and dependable daily driver and I really couldn't find fault in their arguments because lets face it those early models were not the best cars to translate to todays roads!

ALL OTHERS that have been turned into Rods were #4-5-6 cars (depending on the ratings scheme you follow) that were barely good for parts or potential #3 cars that were rust buckets!

So Why do we say what we do on the forum?


Personally its fun to make posts on this forum secure in the fact that I can ramble and spout my opinions, views, hyperbole and innuendos all day long and NONE of you can reach through my computer monitor and punch me in the nose! (Also I’m also 5’ 10” 285 and have been lifting weights for about 20 years to back myself up in person so don't get any ideas:rolleyes: !)

We all are emboldened by this ability to instantly post responses to the forum that are "heart-felt and spontaneous" and not what we really intended to say. But unlike firing off an email where it's near impossible to retrieve once you sent it - here on the forum you can go back and edit or delete your responses.:cool:

To Sum this all up...

To Restorers..
The way I see it GOOD Hudsons are NOT being cutup for Hot Rods. So you Restorers out there should lighten up on the Rodders. Face it the Rodders should be your friends as they will be making more spare parts available for your restorations!

To Rodders...
You need to lighten up on the Restorers! You may or may not need NOS parts for your Rod - but believe it or not the restorers out there have TON's of valuable information on the original parts and pieces to help determine Re-Sale Value, Removal and Replacement, and or Repairs (not all Rodders use bolt on parts!)

There's not many Hudsons left and room enough for us all!

[Deleted User]

rambos_ride wrote:

I love these discussions!

I'm probably going to "stir the pot" a bit - but here goes...:D

To Rodders...
You need to lighten up on the Restorers! You may or may not need NOS parts for your Rod - but believe it or not the restorers out there have TON's of valuable information on the original parts and pieces to help determine Re-Sale Value, Removal and Replacement, and or Repairs (not all Rodders use bolt on parts!)

There's not many Hudsons left and room enough for us all!

Hi Dan.....I am sorry but I must disagree that rodders need to lighten up on restorers. As I see it, we are the ones constantly being haranged for our views, while not being the ones to desparage restorers for their views (unless attacked). If a comment against restorers is made, its almost always in the context of a reaction from unwarranted comments from some. I do not hear rodders here making condescending or nasty remarks to purists (unless in reaction to the receipt of them), yet the opposite is a common idea among many here. Its condescending and nasty remarks (and an often self-righteous attitude) which are often made against rodders (in part possibly because they know rodders are out-numbered and there will be plenty of other folks to back up their nasty comments) which I believe are not made against purists that are upsetting to me. And why is it not okay to rod a car thats a #1, 2, or 3? If mine hadn't had been frame damaged, it would still have been rodded, because thats what I wanted (after considering whether to restore it). I don't have the money to build a rust bucket with no floors, interior, windows, etc. Why should I only be allowed to rod a car that needs alot of work and money (i.e. rust buckets)? I am not one to try and divide the Hudson community, I'm actually trying to make it more open-minded and inclusive. I just don't believe rodders should just take it and say nothing, how will the status quo ever change.

I do wholeheartedly agree with your statement that there is room enough for all, just don't believe everyone else thinks that, though I would agree that some do.

[Deleted User]

Jay,



Sorry, not going to use the sub forum on this... The only area I disagree with you is where someone would want to Hot Rod a nice original and DESIREABLE car. Would you advocate someone taking a number one condition, original 5,000 mile 1962 Impala coupe, 409, dual quad with a factory four speed and chop the top or change the engine? This is an extreme example but makes the point that it would be simply foolish for both resale and for historical purposes to alter a car like this. The area for debate will always be where is the line drawn. If someone owned a car like or similar in desirability in the example above, and they knowingly molested it, it would simply be ignorant. Niels

[Deleted User]

Niels, The '62 chevy scenerio sounds like one of those jobs done by "THE BOYD". That is the type of rodding I hate to see. Fortunately, Like Dan said I think that 90% of the Hudson Rods do not fit into that catagory. I shudder to think what Boyd Coddington would do to a nice Hudson. I saw it best said, in an earlier post. AVOID THE BOYD, and his style.
Bob:D

hudsontech

rambos_ride wrote:

I love these discussions!



I'm probably going to "stir the pot" a bit - but here goes...:D



Hudson Rodding Truth vs. Fiction



I have been on this forum for nearly 2 years. In that time there has been only 1 Hudson (after inspections didn't reveal horrible rust probelms...) that I thought was a nice restoration candidate that someone was going to rod. This was a late 20's Essex and the person making the changes stated very eloquently their case for wanting a reliable and dependable daily driver and I really couldn't find fault in their arguments because lets face it those early models were not the best cars to translate to todays roads!



ALL OTHERS that have been turned into Rods were #4-5-6 cars (depending on the ratings scheme you follow) that were barely good for parts or potential #3 cars that were rust buckets!



So Why do we say what we do on the forum?





Personally its fun to make posts on this forum secure in the fact that I can ramble and spout my opinions, views, hyperbole and innuendos all day long and NONE of you can reach through my computer monitor and punch me in the nose! (Also I’m also 5’ 10” 285 and have been lifting weights for about 20 years to back myself up in person so don't get any ideas:rolleyes: !)



We all are emboldened by this ability to instantly post responses to the forum that are "heart-felt and spontaneous" and not what we really intended to say. But unlike firing off an email where it's near impossible to retrieve once you sent it - here on the forum you can go back and edit or delete your responses.:cool:



To Sum this all up...



To Restorers..

The way I see it GOOD Hudsons are NOT being cutup for Hot Rods. So you Restorers out there should lighten up on the Rodders. Face it the Rodders should be your friends as they will be making more spare parts available for your restorations!



To Rodders...

You need to lighten up on the Restorers! You may or may not need NOS parts for your Rod - but believe it or not the restorers out there have TON's of valuable information on the original parts and pieces to help determine Re-Sale Value, Removal and Replacement, and or Repairs (not all Rodders use bolt on parts!)



There's not many Hudsons left and room enough for us all!

HMMMM - 5’ 10” 285 and have been lifting weights for about 20 years!!! Can yu spell "shotgun" LOL ROF LLAM



Hudsonly,

Alex B

Geoff

Sounds to me like at least one gent here is well balanced - he has a chip on both shoulders!

Geoff.

[Deleted User]

nhp1127 wrote:

Jay,

Sorry, not going to use the sub forum on this... The only area I disagree with you is where someone would want to Hot Rod a nice original and DESIREABLE car. Would you advocate someone taking a number one condition, original 5,000 mile 1962 Impala coupe, 409, dual quad with a factory four speed and chop the top or change the engine? This is an extreme example but makes the point that it would be simply foolish for both resale and for historical purposes to alter a car like this. The area for debate will always be where is the line drawn. If someone owned a car like or similar in desirability in the example above, and they knowingly molested it, it would simply be ignorant. Niels

I guess Niels, is that my answer would be sure I can see that. If thats what the owner wanted. Doesn't mean thats how I would do things or that I should nastily criticise someone else for there decision. Now granted that it may make more financial sense to sell it and buy a #2 car, in that case, don't chop it, sell it, you might make enough to pay for a large portion of your rodding. My point is that its each person's right to decide what he wants to do and shouldn't have to be subjected to nasty treatment for it. I'm not talking PC here, just civility. I'm not trying to sound like some whinning toddler, just that because someone strongly disagrees with anothers position, doesn't mean they deserve to be treated less than other owners. Shoot, with the way Hudsons are selling today, and if mine would have been a 1 or 2 (especially since its a coupe), I'd have probably sold them and had plenty of cash to do a good build on another Hudson.

I do not buy cars as investments, I think you have to play an astute game to make money at it, and frankly, I'm not talented enough for that. I do though, have a certain budget and am designing my car around that budget. I just want to drive my cool car to work and drive my kid to school in it everyday. :-)

I happen to think all cars in all conditions are fair game. But I won't call you an idiot (unless you call me one) for your opinion, just "thats your opinion." Maybe I would offer to buy the car from you for a fair price, and if you didn't sell, oh well, sh*t happens.

Now where are all those AZ Hudson owners, I think they must live in caves year 'round! Do I really have to join a club to meet them?

Your okay Niels, still like to meet up when I'm in your neck-of-the-woods next time (just don't call me an idiot. lol) I'll tell your Mommy! :-)

mrsbojigger

I'm sitting here reading and smiling all the way down this thread. Love it, love it, love it. Dan what a pot you put out here to stir. And Niels, I did exactly that. I took a car straight off the showroom floor and customized it. Where is that pristine car now? Who cares! It was fun while it lasted. As for all the Hudson idols, in 50 years this won't matter anyway. My perspective of life and what we are doing with our lives has really changed recently. I have just went thru a year and a half of major cancer experiences. What I had was one of the most aggressive and rare forms of cancer that there is and there are only about 300 documented cases of this type. They think that they caught it while it was still encapsulated. If it had metastasized my oncologist said that would just tell me to go home and get my things in order. He would not bother to treat me since it is 100% fatal at this stage. Why am I tell you ALL this since I am a very private person? Because, all this bickering crap doesn't mean a thing in the long haul of life. Get over it! At 67 I am now out there being and doing things I never thought I would have done before and I'm ENJOYING my cars (Hudson, Ford, Chevy). I am not putting them away to be saved for posterity or for my kids to fight over when I'm dead. As for the pot stirring, there are good guys that love finely restored cars and there are good guys that love the "other". The fact is that I think I would feel very uncomfortable taking my custom Hud to a Hudson meet but I would not think twice about taking my restored car to a custom show. That's the way it is. Lighten up guys!
Oh, and Jay. Hang in there buddy!

Peace,
Chaz

[Deleted User]

I would never say someone who owns a car can't do something to it but common sense should be a common virtue. I would say that if today's owner of an original Hemi Cuda, took out the engine and sold it to some guy for $2,500 and then chopped the top and put a slant six in it, then I would describe him as stupid. He just pissed away a few hundred thousand. I am certainly not calling anyone here stupid here, just trying to make a point on an exagerated example.

I think some of you over react about how negatively most HET members would react to a modified Hudson. This forum is just a few people. Most people here and everywhere appreciate any nice car, rodded or not.

Unknown

Every one is in a different situation. I enjoyed making my money, and I am enjoying spending it. I bought a $2500 48 coupe, spent a ton of money on it, and have a beautiful custom. It even has a 59 chev dash that looks like it grew there. I figure alot of us will be on the porch or under the ground in 15 or so years, and I am going to enjoy driving my new rod in the mean time. I do enjoy the ' rants' that some of you old purists put out, do you think you are changing anyones mind. Barry

Unknown

I believe my post in the other thread fairly carefully illustrated my standing on the issue as a young HET member and owner of a classic car enterprise. Make of my comments what you will, and far be it from me to judge anyone for what they do to their car. Still though, it's nice to add an accelerant to the fire now and then, so here goes:



I would no more change the engine in my Hudson, or chop the top, than I would come home from a long day at work, look at my beautiful blonde 26 year old girlfriend, and tell her I want her to get a face transplant.



See you at the next Hudson meet. I'll be the 6' 4" one walking around chanting to myself, "Our Father, who art designer of Wurlitzer dashboards and anti-aircraft guns, hallowed be thy funky cork-impregnated clutch disc." (This is to be done while holding a feeler guage and suspiciously looking around for a set of points to adjust.)



Best Regards,

7XPacemaker

barry wrote:

Every one is in a different situation. I enjoyed making my money, and I am enjoying spending it. I bought a $2500 48 coupe, spent a ton of money on it, and have a beautiful custom. It even has a 59 chev dash that looks like it grew there. I figure alot of us will be on the porch or under the ground in 15 or so years, and I am going to enjoy driving my new rod in the mean time. I do enjoy the ' rants' that some of you old purists put out, do you think you are changing anyones mind. Barry

OLD PURISTS? Odds are, I am probably younger than most of everyone on the forum and probably one of the younger ones in the Hudson Club! I think that we need all need to get together and have a group hug! Bottom line- its your car, do what you want with it, but don't be upset with me if you tell me all about your customized goodies and I'm not impressed. It's just not my cup of tea. It is like a 57 Belair, I can appreciate the car, I just have no interest in them. I am not saying that one is better than the other. they are just "different".

C.J.

[Deleted User]

jamcoats wrote:

I believe my post in the other thread fairly carefully illustrated my standing on the issue as a young HET member and owner of a classic car enterprise. Make of my comments what you will, and far be it from me to judge anyone for what they do to their car. Still though, it's nice to add an accelerant to the fire now and then, so here goes:

I would no more change the engine in my Hudson, or chop the top, than I would come home from a long day at work, look at my beautiful blonde 26 year old girlfriend, and tell her I want her to get a face transplant.

See you at the next Hudson meet. I'll be the 6' 4" one walking around chanting to myself, "Our Father, who art designer of Wurlitzer dashboards and anti-aircraft guns, hallowed be thy funky cork-impregnated clutch disc." (This is to be done while holding a feeler guage and suspiciously looking around for a set of points to adjust.)

Best Regards,

Nothing wrong with that at all!

[Deleted User]

Folks I too am enjoying this thread and though I treat my Hornet like a member of the family at the end of the day its just a car. I love it dearly and my daughter and I spend many a hour laughing in it, around it, and on the road. All the sweat and tears and still its not worth fighting over.

And I say come on guys get thicker skin. As a rodder you have to know when your a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs you have to be careful.

That misquote is me getting ready to be the "old Hudson fart" on the porch dispensing pearls of wisdom the way the goverment dispenses your money among idiots....see there is another just can't help myself.

If you see a 5'11" hunk, sexy and tanned boosting your car while your busy arguing thats me....and I've been chucking weights for 25 years and done some pilates too..........:D:p

[Deleted User]

7XPacemaker wrote:

OLD PURISTS? Odds are, I am probably younger than most of everyone on the forum and probably one of the younger ones in the Hudson Club! I think that we need all need to get together and have a group hug! Bottom line- its your car, do what you want with it, but don't be upset with me if you tell me all about your customized goodies and I'm not impressed. It's just not my cup of tea. It is like a 57 Belair, I can appreciate the car, I just have no interest in them. I am not saying that one is better than the other. they are just "different".
C.J.

I think you've made my point, you can not like something, but not have to be nasty about it. As you stated "they are just different."

[Deleted User]

51hornetA wrote:

And I say come on guys get thicker skin. As a rodder you have to know when your a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs you have to be careful.

I just believe it should be that way. We are trying to be an inclusive club, not a "take it or get out" kind of club.

If you see a 6'2", 210lbs with grey hair guy with a blonde who must be his daughter pushing a walker, who never works out, thats me! (just kidding about the walker, though I feel like it some mornings! lol)

Unknown

neilsl just doesnt get it(((( LETS LOVE ONE ANOTHER AND TO EACH HIS OWN, AT 70 I THINK CHAZ HAS IT RIGHT, IVE HAD A STROKE, LOST MY EYESIGHT FOR 2 YEARS AND KIDNEYS GONE, ON DIALYSIS 3 YEARS.BU STILL HAPPY WITH LIFE AND MY HUDSONS AND FELLOW OLD CAR LOVERS OF ANY TYPE, BILL ALBRIGHT

[Deleted User]

Hi,

I started out as a purist. But after about 10 years of seeing my 20K mile original 29E coupe just sit in the driveway or the garage, I decided to make a driver out of it. Before, every time I took it out for a drive I had free up the clutch and clean out the carb. Mostly because it only got driven about twice a year.

Now I have a Chevy 350/th350 setup with an ifs. I drive it on a daily basis. I even drive it to work sometimes even when I'm working 500 or 600 miles from home. I'm not afraid to take it anywhere and I love driving it.

I still like to see a nicely restored car, but I don't like car shows, except the ones you find in small town festivals where everyone drives their car to the show and in the parades. Some of the money pits you see at big shows really turn me off. If you can't use it what good is it?

The point for me is I enjoy them both, hot rods and restored vehicles and I love my car.



I agree with Chaz. As long as it makes you happy and it doesn't hurt anyone else, go for it.



GaryB

htrdsx

Aaron D. IL

Agree with what's been said generally but for the sake of rational debate amongst us otherwise irrational people lemme play devil's advocate on the "whatever, as long as you're doing no harm" notion. Suppose you've been saving and preserving Hudsons for the better part of 50 years especially when no one else wanted them, you've saved parts, cars, and built up an encyclopedic knowledge. It is in essence your life's work even if it's only a "hobby". Now some punk kid comes around and says "all that's BS old technology and I'm not gonna take the time to understand it. I'm gonna do it my way" I think you might have your feelings hurt after all that dedication. Is that doing harm?

Just trying to put myself in the "purist" shoes.

Oh BTW I'm 28 6'7" 190 lbs of weight liftin muscle armed to the teeth and ready to kick all ya'll asses. LMAO. peace

[Deleted User]

Aaron great post. Did I say 5'11" in my post what I meant to say was 6'11" of wirey mean spiritness, I'm chewing on an old boot as I type this......

Aaron D. IL

LOL yeah 51 "gimme a beer in a dirty glass" I have a tail gunner waiting in my Hudson outside.

rambos_ride

...(Also I’m also 5’ 10” 285 and have been lifting weights for about 20 years to back myself up in person so don't get any ideas:rolleyes: !)
...

WHOOPS! Really it's ".. and I haven't lifted weights in 20 years" (at least it feels like it sometimes!)

Unknown

I've always found that those "internet talker" that boast their sheer size on the internet are just doing that, "talking it up" :rolleyes:



Me, well, I'm just a little guy... :cool:

[Deleted User]

I have a really mean chihuahua!

[Deleted User]

Aaron D. IL wrote:

Agree with what's been said generally but for the sake of rational debate amongst us otherwise irrational people lemme play devil's advocate on the "whatever, as long as you're doing no harm" notion. Suppose you've been saving and preserving Hudsons for the better part of 50 years especially when no one else wanted them, you've saved parts, cars, and built up an encyclopedic knowledge. It is in essence your life's work even if it's only a "hobby". Now some punk kid comes around and says "all that's BS old technology and I'm not gonna take the time to understand it. I'm gonna do it my way" I think you might have your feelings hurt after all that dedication. Is that doing harm?
Just trying to put myself in the "purist" shoes.
Oh BTW I'm 28 6'7" 190 lbs of weight liftin muscle armed to the teeth and ready to kick all ya'll asses. LMAO. peace

I understand what you're saying Aaron, but I think rodders are not saying that Hud technology is BS. Rather, I think we are just saying we want something else. Its not that we don't understand Hud technology, we just want something different for our own individual needs. I'm glad there are folks restoring these cars. I think the rodders around here have always tried to be respectful of them.

Guys I think this thread has actually turned out quite good overall! Now, would you tell those nuts here in AZ to get their cars out! Sometimes I think I'm going to have to roll my torn apart Coupe out into the driveway just so people know there is at least one in AZ!

nick s

7XPacemaker wrote:

OLD PURISTS? Odds are, I am probably younger than most of everyone on the forum and probably one of the younger ones in the Hudson Club! I think that we need all need to get together and have a group hug! Bottom line- its your car, do what you want with it, but don't be upset with me if you tell me all about your customized goodies and I'm not impressed. It's just not my cup of tea. It is like a 57 Belair, I can appreciate the car, I just have no interest in them. I am not saying that one is better than the other. they are just "different".

C.J.

i'll defend you on the "OLD PURIST" stuff C.J. Who dares call you a purist You drive a "pacemaker" with an engine pushing more cubes and h.p. than the v6 that seamed to start these fireworks? you're on your own on the old part though. (you do have me beat there) You want to impress someone over tea?, the "pure" pedigree of your engine and what those inches and horses have seen over the last 50 years. of course from what i've read, i'm pretty sure that engine and your front end could never handle it LOL. actually i probably could blame seing your car and a certain 53 7x coupe flying past one mother's day afternoon on the turnpike 25 or so years ago as my draw to the hornet.

So perhaps its that we do have old memories of hudsons just being hudsons that make us "old purists" but its more likely the years we were fortunate to spend with the origonal purists who took the time to share the legacy of these cars with us. Unfortunately many of them have passed on but as we become the "old purists" its our duty to maintain and share their legacy and the knowledge they fortunately passed to us.



around here you would think rod vs restore was roe vs wade(somedays not as civil). but i think most will agree that: Its your car, do what you want, but ENJOY it. stock or custom if you don't take it out of the garage why have it? regardless you probably aren't going to be run out town. whichever side your on, your car and efforts may not get the attention you want depending where you are. but take that in stride and enjoy whatever else the event has to offer. most importantly, keep your differences aside and enjoy the people, like you they are enjoying their car you at least have that in common.



No, i won't be impressed with your LT1 or mustang suspension but something like Dan's flip-up Heads-up display would gain my attention the first time i saw it, not that i would do it. jay's coupe-hardtop dream would get my attention for sure but that chopped and flamed big bad green coupe recently for sale wouldn't get much of a glance from me.

Unknown

You jokers in Arizona, if you have air conditioning, FIX IT, and please, take your Hudson out and drive it, for Jay's sake!



As for me, I'm working my ass off in this Alabama steam room trying to get my heap of Hudson parts ready for the local traveling cruise in Saturday night. No, it ain't a "dry heat", and every 15 minutes for the past week it drizzles rain, making it worse. I'll also hopefully be at the Krispy Kreme Saturday morning for AACA gathering; a monthly bull- session where us "old purists" get together to preen and spin yarns. So if you're tuned in to this locally, bring something old, and enjoy free coffee & doughnuts. With the luck I've had recently you might have to help me push mine home!



Best Regards,

[Deleted User]

nhp1127 wrote:

I would never say someone who owns a car can't do something to it but common sense should be a common virtue. I would say that if today's owner of an original Hemi Cuda, took out the engine and sold it to some guy for $2,500 and then chopped the top and put a slant six in it, then I would describe him as stupid. He just pissed away a few hundred thousand. I am certainly not calling anyone here stupid here, just trying to make a point on an exagerated example.

I think some of you over react about how negatively most HET members would react to a modified Hudson. This forum is just a few people. Most people here and everywhere appreciate any nice car, rodded or not.

I will still happily call anyone stupid to their face for pissing away a few hundred thousand- stupid, stupid, stupid!

[Deleted User]

nhp1127 wrote:

I will still happily call anyone stupid to their face for pissing away a few hundred thousand- stupid, stupid, stupid!

I think your softening up a little there Niels! :-)

Unknown

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! Or something like that.



We need to face the fact that most of us own Hudsons because we dare to be different! Some of us take it a step further by personalizing our cars a little (or a lot).



I have had three different Hudsons (not counting a donor car) during my life, a '48 Comm. 6, a '53 Hornet with a 7x, and now a 52 Hornet. The first two were "all Hudson" but my 52 is my "Hotrod". I loved all of them.



I kinda inherited (a little money was involved) the '52 from my late Uncle Harold when he died at 79 years old. He was a club member for many years, and has been described by at least one club member as a "butcher" because of what he had done to the last few Hudsons he owned. (A 454 into a 40 Club coupe, 350 Olds and front clip into a 46(or 47) P.U., and the small block Chrysler into my Hornet.)



His idea of a hotrod is what I would call a sleeper. Stock looking but with V8 power. If he were alive today, he would be stuck in the middle of these discussions, and I am sure that he is turning over in his grave because of "how" I am making "his" Hudson look! To him, stripping off most of the chrome and stainless, putting the car down in the weeds, and painting it bright orange, instead of a Hudson "color" is going to send me straight to Hell!



But the truth is we all make some changes to our cars to personalize them. Some are just more evident than others.



I just hope I can find someone like Jay (a hotrodder) if I ever have to sell it!



James, I still am envious of the cars you own.



Oh yea, Jay, I live just west of Phoenix....... in Riverside!



Terry

Unknown

I think I will take my Hudson out in the country and set it on fire. What do you think about that? You think it is stupid, don't you? It's my damned car and I can do whatever the hell I want to with it. So can every other person that owns one. That's how I feel about it. Hot rod, stock, pink,308, 350, V6, V4, freaking two stroke, just let people alone. If they don't ask your opinion, don't give it.
My 2 cents worth. Bob