52 Hornet Restoration Project
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Have decided to install Chevy 350 engine from Prestige Engines located in Phoenix, AZ and going to use 700R4 transmission...Many months ago I got rid of original Hudson 308 engine and transmission, however I now need to find out the following: I intend to use original Hudson Instrument Cluster and need to know if any of you used 700R4; what connecting cable did you use, who if anyone supplies them? At a later date or after 9 inch Ford rear end is secured I'll need drive and driven gear ratio, however with oversize tires and wheels I'll have to wait my until final decision. Presently just need connecting cable information.
Thanks,
Ray
Thanks,
Ray
0
Comments
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Ray wrote:Have decided to install Chevy 350 engine from Prestige Engines located in Phoenix, AZ and going to use 700R4 transmission...Many months ago I got rid of original Hudson 308 engine and transmission, however I now need to find out the following: I intend to use original Hudson Instrument Cluster and need to know if any of you used 700R4; what connecting cable did you use, who if anyone supplies them? At a later date or after 9 inch Ford rear end is secured I'll need drive and driven gear ratio, however with oversize tires and wheels I'll have to wait my until final decision. Presently just need connecting cable information.
Thanks,
Ray
Good questions Ray,
I know you could get similar functioned aftermarket gauges that will fit in the stock placements but I haven't seen anyone try and re-use the original gauges on newer components.
I like the idea - just don't know if anyone has pulled it off yet...
I'm going with an aftermarket Heads Up Display augmented with digital gauges in the dash in my 49.0 -
I also would like to know this. I would like to use the stock gauges, but have a SBC as well. And I think my speedoometer is electronic too.0
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If you dont use the factory units could use the VDO classic series speedo and that has a pulse unit that goes into the outo and you then just dail it in to all the gear ratios0
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essexcoupe3131 wrote:If you dont use the factory units could use the VDO classic series speedo and that has a pulse unit that goes into the outo and you then just dail it in to all the gear ratios
Hey Mike! Yeah, looks like I'll have to go that route if I can't figure a way to use the stock ones. Have a feeling I may not be able to use my originals.......geez, one thing I'd like to keep stock and probably won't be able to!0 -
Don't give up guys there are a lot of Hudsons out there with later trannys in them and stock dashes. There has to be a way. When you find out let me know too. I'm using a turbo 400 and I plan on using the stock dash and quages.0
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Luckily, there are 2 types of operations for the 700R4 speedometer unit. They have the electronic sending unit, for those of you that want to use Electronic guages, or you can have the manual "cable" unit, and use your original guage. At first, I was going to use the electronic way, but in after-thought, I decided to keep all my original guages. You take off the electronic tailsection, and install a manual drive one. Then, you'll need to know your trans final ratio(.76),rear-end ratio, and tire circumfrence. Go to your local GM dealer's parts counter with this info, and he will sell you the correct gears to make the speedo accurate. If you're going to have a transmission shop build the transmission, or you're just going to buy one complete, just tell the tranny shop you want it "CABLE" drive and tell them what gears it will need. Then, just find the closest speedo cable shop to you, and have then make one up. There are "LOTS" of cable shops. Check magazines like Street-Rodder, Rod and Custom, or Hot Rod. If you haven't already installed the tranny, I can show you pictures of some of the "tight spaces" you encounter. The 700R4 has 2 different length tail sections. The wrong one will put you having to do some uni-body reconstruction. The right one fits like a glove. Naturally, to get the tranny to fit right, the engine has to be in the right place too. The "trick" is to get the oilpan, exhaust, tie-rods, steer-arm, distributor, slip-yoke, and transmission pan to clear, without "major surgery". Like I've posted here before, I have hundreds of before and after pictures of what I've done, and I don't mind sharing them. My "modified" '48 has........
Walker Radiator
Modified Chevy with 2 Holley 450's and tunnel-ram
Drag-Racer built 700R4 w/2500 stall speed, lock-up torque converter
LaBud's front disc brakes
Currie-built Ford 9in, 3.28 ratio,posi-trak, w/disc brakes
It gets 18mpg, and will eat up Mustang GT's.0 -
wkitchens wrote:Luckily, there are 2 types of operations for the 700R4 speedometer unit. They have the electronic sending unit, for those of you that want to use Electronic guages, or you can have the manual "cable" unit, and use your original guage. At first, I was going to use the electronic way, but in after-thought, I decided to keep all my original guages. You take off the electronic tailsection, and install a manual drive one. Then, you'll need to know your trans final ratio(.76),rear-end ratio, and tire circumfrence. Go to your local GM dealer's parts counter with this info, and he will sell you the correct gears to make the speedo accurate. If you're going to have a transmission shop build the transmission, or you're just going to buy one complete, just tell the tranny shop you want it "CABLE" drive and tell them what gears it will need. Then, just find the closest speedo cable shop to you, and have then make one up. There are "LOTS" of cable shops. Check magazines like Street-Rodder, Rod and Custom, or Hot Rod. If you haven't already installed the tranny, I can show you pictures of some of the "tight spaces" you encounter. The 700R4 has 2 different length tail sections. The wrong one will put you having to do some uni-body reconstruction. The right one fits like a glove. Naturally, to get the tranny to fit right, the engine has to be in the right place too. The "trick" is to get the oilpan, exhaust, tie-rods, steer-arm, distributor, slip-yoke, and transmission pan to clear, without "major surgery". Like I've posted here before, I have hundreds of before and after pictures of what I've done, and I don't mind sharing them. My "modified" '48 has........
Walker Radiator
Modified Chevy with 2 Holley 450's and tunnel-ram
Drag-Racer built 700R4 w/2500 stall speed, lock-up torque converter
LaBud's front disc brakes
Currie-built Ford 9in, 3.28 ratio,posi-trak, w/disc brakes
It gets 18mpg, and will eat up Mustang GT's.
Great information Wes!
Since I'm not planning on using my stock gauges and I am using the HUD display for basic speed output I have a slightly different issue with my speed output setup.
The issue is with my transmission TH400. I need to get an electronic signal output to send to the HUD computer. I haven't done a whole lot of grunt work searching yet but I'm hoping someone makes an analog to digitial "converter" that would bolt on at the point where the speedo cable attaches to the transmission...anyone know of a unit like this?0 -
heres the info on gauges. classic instruments makes a quad setup that will fit in the stock holes. if your fortunate enough to have a good speedo and tach shop near you you can have your gauges updated. they take everything out of the gauge. clean it. and replace the worn internals. and calibrate it if you have the info on your tire size and gear ratio. as to the 700r4 fitting......
I have never had an issue were I had to chop up a car to get a tranny to fit. Engines..... sure but not trannies. I have had issues getting a 200 into a car but who uses those tanks?
boils down to .
drive train chev 350, to a 700r4, to a fraud (ford) 9 inch. unbeatable driveability, durability, driveability, and accesability of parts. stock to the car is fine if its a trailer queen.... but for those of use that arent rich and drive our cars... this is the set up I recommend. no offense to the purests, but you just cant afford the hudson parts anymore, or most cant afford for al or bill to make um a pretty, original hudson.
p.s.
thanx to Jay and his pacemaker....
Betsy has been on the road for a week.
for those that dont know......
you can use 48-54 hudson front suspension and spindles on any 48-54 hudson. the front brakes can vary but the control arms, spindles,crossmember and swap bar are the same.
also DO NOT use the 263 pads for your front brakes if you have the 11 x 2 1/4 brakes. hudson brakes are of center while the ford version is centered. if you can find them the raybestos 177 is the right one. you can modify your piviot pin by moveing it down 5 mills and then you can use the 59 ford galaxy front brakes. you can also have your drums turned till there is a eighth inch lip then they will work as well.
Im currently trying to modify the ford nine inch terino flang rear drums to fit the 49-54 hudson front spindle... let you know how it goes.
So thank you Jay....
Ray your car is on its way. front fenders are blocked and ready for primer.
I will be starting a new thread for the progress of ray's coupe called Zombie chop shop.0 -
49hudson wrote:heres the info on gauges. classic instruments makes a quad setup that will fit in the stock holes. if your fortunate enough to have a good speedo and tach shop near you you can have your gauges updated. they take everything out of the gauge. clean it. and replace the worn internals. and calibrate it if you have the info on your tire size and gear ratio. as to the 700r4 fitting......
I have never had an issue were I had to chop up a car to get a tranny to fit. Engines..... sure but not trannies. I have had issues getting a 200 into a car but who uses those tanks?
boils down to .
drive train chev 350, to a 700r4, to a fraud (ford) 9 inch. unbeatable driveability, durability, driveability, and accesability of parts. stock to the car is fine if its a trailer queen.... but for those of use that arent rich and drive our cars... this is the set up I recommend. no offense to the purests, but you just cant afford the hudson parts anymore, or most cant afford for al or bill to make um a pretty, original hudson.
p.s.
thanx to Jay and his pacemaker....
Betsy has been on the road for a week.
for those that dont know......
you can use 48-54 hudson front suspension and spindles on any 48-54 hudson. the front brakes can vary but the control arms, spindles,crossmember and swap bar are the same.
also DO NOT use the 263 pads for your front brakes if you have the 11 x 2 1/4 brakes. hudson brakes are of center while the ford version is centered. if you can find them the raybestos 177 is the right one. you can modify your piviot pin by moveing it down 5 mills and then you can use the 59 ford galaxy front brakes. you can also have your drums turned till there is a eighth inch lip then they will work as well.
Im currently trying to modify the ford nine inch terino flang rear drums to fit the 49-54 hudson front spindle... let you know how it goes.
So thank you Jay....
Ray your car is on its way. front fenders are blocked and ready for primer.
I will be starting a new thread for the progress of ray's coupe called Zombie chop shop.
Cyrus,
I'll be interested and will read your and follow ZOMBIE CHOP SHOP progress...
At differnt times I have purchased two two pretty good speedometer for use in my planned Hornet restoration, do you have a good shop near you or can recommned?
Thanks,
Ray0 -
Ray wrote:Have decided to install Chevy 350 engine from Prestige Engines located in Phoenix, AZ and going to use 700R4 transmission...Many months ago I got rid of original Hudson 308 engine and transmission, however I now need to find out the following: I intend to use original Hudson Instrument Cluster and need to know if any of you used 700R4; what connecting cable did you use, who if anyone supplies them? At a later date or after 9 inch Ford rear end is secured I'll need drive and driven gear ratio, however with oversize tires and wheels I'll have to wait my until final decision. Presently just need connecting cable information.
Thanks,
Ray
I just posted some information on a new thread and wanted to add some more data to this one..
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/speedometer_calibration_______va.htm#400
Maybe check this site out. They have all kinds of adapters and parts - plus cables - look under the 700R4 link
Maybe one of those cable setups will fit?0 -
rambos_ride wrote:I just posted some information on a new thread and wanted to add some more data to this one..
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/speedometer_calibration_______va.htm#400
Maybe check this site out. They have all kinds of adapters and parts - plus cables - look under the 700R4 link
Maybe one of those cable setups will fit?
Good Morning Rambo,
Your a wealth of helpful information to all members, Hudson FORUM is most fortunate in having your support...Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving,
Ray0 -
Hi Dan. The Mega Raptor Level 4 is what I've got in my '48. I found that website, printed off a copy of the parts list, and took it to a local Tranny Shop that's been in buisness for over 40 years, and has an EXCELLENT rating with the BBB. He said it wouldn't be any problem building me that transmission, it's just got "Super Hi-Performance" parts replacing the standard ones. He built it for me for under $1450. The only change I made was with the low stall torque converter, the car wanted to lunge when you put it in drive, and you had to really hold the brakes to keep the car stopped. After replacing the low stall with a 2500 stall, it worked perfectly. It launches hard out of the hole if you want it to, or you can drive it normal. I think it's well worth the money spent, knowing you have more transmission than your engine can tear up. I attached the receipt, but I'm not sure how it will show up on this forum. I did all this back in 2003.0
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wkitchens wrote:Hi Dan. The Mega Raptor Level 4 is what I've got in my '48. I found that website, printed off a copy of the parts list, and took it to a local Tranny Shop that's been in buisness for over 40 years, and has an EXCELLENT rating with the BBB. He said it wouldn't be any problem building me that transmission, it's just got "Super Hi-Performance" parts replacing the standard ones. He built it for me for under $1450. The only change I made was with the low stall torque converter, the car wanted to lunge when you put it in drive, and you had to really hold the brakes to keep the car stopped. After replacing the low stall with a 2500 stall, it worked perfectly. It launches hard out of the hole if you want it to, or you can drive it normal. I think it's well worth the money spent, knowing you have more transmission than your engine can tear up. I attached the receipt, but I'm not sure how it will show up on this forum. I did all this back in 2003.
Hi Wes,
Thats a nice looking transmission setup. Do you have the huge pan that they show on the website picture? That thing is huge!
My 90 GM Truck 700R4 has been nothing but a PIA - but it has the lockout/overdrive converter in it - this has been the source of all my transmission problems in this rig. When the converter let's loose there goes the trans :mad:
I just had a TH400 built by my transmission guy for 1400.00.
The TH400 I used for mock-up had a crack in the case when he tore it down so it was useless for any parts.
I was thinking of trying a HP TH350 torque converter in mine because you're supposed to get the same stall speed - but since the converter is smaller and therefore lighter - it should spin up faster taking less HP.
Years ago I used to run Vega converters in my TH350 in my 68 Chevelle. They'd give you about 3000 stall speed and were cheap!0 -
Ray wrote:Good Morning Rambo,
Your a wealth of helpful information to all members, Hudson FORUM is most fortunate in having your support...Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving,
Ray
You're welcome Ray!
Thanks to you and Happy Thanksgiving as well!
(P.S. the money has been wired to your account
) 0 -
Didn't they used to use Opal torque converters in the old 2 sp Powerglides? Or was it the T350's? Seem to remember something like that years ago.0
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Yes, I have the huge pan, with the heat dissipating vents on the bottom. All aluminum. Fluid goes out of the tranny, to a cooler mounted on the rear of the tranny, then to the bottom of the radiator, then to a 10,000lb. towing cap. cooler mounted just under the front bumper, then to the tranny. My thinking was to get the most heat out of the first cooler, to keep as much heat as I could out of the engine compartment. I really like the fender vents on the new Buick Lucerne. Good looking, and functional too. I'm sure I'm going to put some type of heat escape vents there, but I haven't made up my mind what type will look "original" yet.0
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Just in case anyone is interested, I have a pretty good condition trunk lid from what I believe is '51 -53 Hornet and would like to trade for lower stainless steel 2 door coupe trim piece that runs under the larger trim on rocker panel.
Expect for a couple of pieces I picked up all my stainless steel trim from polisher yesterday, every pretty shinning piece that dresses up Hornet; wrapped each piece in saran wrap and will start to pick up all the chrome from replater nex week, then I will ship to Cyrus Drew who is completing my '52 Hornet restoration...350 Chevy 4 bolt engine has been ordered and paid for and should be completed within three weeks 700R4 transmission will be finished by next Firday, haven't secured 9 bolt Ford rear yet, but probably will do next week. Thanks all for pictures and input.
Have great weekend,
Ray0 -
Saw your car yesterday Ray. Thats going to be a sweet ride!0
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jsrail wrote:Saw your car yesterday Ray. Thats going to be a sweet ride!
Although it will some time, I'lm looking forward to completion and this will be one Hornet I will keep. today I attended Kruse Auction in Las Vegas and saw some great restorations, not one Hudson being offered, makes you beliieve Hudson samrt owners don't want to part with great car...I'll try and post a couple of the nice cars (Hudson wanta bees) with paint jobs I saw...
Ray0 -
jsrail wrote:Saw your car yesterday Ray. Thats going to be a sweet ride!
Thanks Jay,
I hope your project is coming along as well, then maybe Cyrus, your self and I can attend Arizonia H.E.T. meet next year.
Ray0 -
Incoming message from transmision shop in Texas who built my 700R4, have pictures if interested let me know and I'll post them...Waiting for my Chevy engine to be completed which should be completed before Christmas.
Ray
Here we go:
We started with an 88 700R4 core V8 aux valve body w/electrictronic speedo, disassembled inspected and cleaned up unit!
In the pump,
13 vane pump kit, .500 boost valve, Teflon bushing and high pressure regulator spring!
ALTO red high energy clutch packs in all drums
Raybestos Kevlar band
Hardened reaction shell
Rebuilt planetary gears
Polished aluminum pan w/stainless bolts
Corvette servo and governer
Transco separator plate
Transco no yoyo shift kit!
2000-2200 stall HP converter
4th gear lockup kit
Transstar seals and gaskets
Timkin bearing kit
Universal dipstick and tube
USED torque converter dust cover
Auto meter Trans temp sender and gauge
Tail shaft w/mounting boss
29 element sprag
That’s about it I think ,, now I did wind up painting the unit a gold/silver metal flake I know you wanted a natural case however I was not happy with how it looked it was very clean but had a lot of dark spots from age so that’s what I chose to do! You can change the color if you wish but the gold with the polished pan looks sharp!! I’m falling asleep here so I probably misspelled a lot and forgot to mention something I’m sure so if you need more info than let me know!!
This was a fun unit to build and looking forward to hear how it feels to run it so let me know when you get it up and running!! Who knows maybe I’ll make a trip out for a test drive
Tom
817-539-05240 -
Sounds extra cool man! Post a pic so we can see that color job!
Hey Ray, are you town over the next couple weeks? I have to go up and meet with a client sometime before the year end and thought it'd be cool to meet up if we can.
Jay0 -
jsrail wrote:Sounds extra cool man! Post a pic so we can see that color job!
Hey Ray, are you town over the next couple weeks? I have to go up and meet with a client sometime before the year end and thought it'd be cool to meet up if we can.
Jay
Yes by all means, please contact me my cell phone is (702) 285-8764 or email me before with your tentative plans, I'd enjoy very much meeting you.
Ray0 -
Jay,
Following are a couple of transmission pictures...I placed order with Fatmanfab for Stage Two setup, should be delivered to Cyrus's within ten days...Picked up all of my stainless which was polished professionally, for '54 years of use, stainless looks like new again, should have my chrome within next ten days; can't wait, all logistis's are almost completed...Hopefully Cyrus will have car ready on or before April H.E.T. meet so I can attend with you all.0 -
That's a good lookin' tranny Ray! Goin' w/ the Fatman's I see...good choice. You'll probably have yours in before mine! Though I wish I had ordered the airbag set-up, but I think I can add it, just have to weld on new shock brackets. I'm looking forward to the April meet, but mine won't be there, the meet is right after tax season ends!0
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I'm hoping my Hornet will be ready for April meet...Jay, do you know when you are arriving in Las Vegas, if so please call me at (702) 285-8764 and I'll buy you a nice lunch...What size wheels and tires are you going to use, I am leaning towards 16" but undecided about tire size; any ideas?
Ray0 -
Hey Ray, just waiting to hear back from a client before I know when I'm coming to LV.
I'm also thinking about using 16"s. Because I'm c-notching the rear frame, I am thinking about putting in new steel wheel tubs. They don't seem that expensive and it gets you away from that narrow width range rear end situation. Just have to brace up the shell since it has a bracket welded between the existing tubs and the the upper rear body and the rear seat brace. Again though, a Ford 9" housing is pretty cheap and you can get them made-to-order in practically any width including disk brakes. Unsure yet which way to go.
I think I'd like a tire a little bit wider than the stock ones for more grip on the road. Definately canning the bias plies on it right now! lol I'd just be happy to have my Fatmans on right now! Then I could see how the front original tires will look for sizing and how the Fatmans has set it.
I'll call you as soon as I know my trip details, promise it won't be the day before! lol
Jay0 -
jsrail wrote:Hey Ray, just waiting to hear back from a client before I know when I'm coming to LV.
I'm also thinking about using 16"s. Because I'm c-notching the rear frame, I am thinking about putting in new steel wheel tubs. They don't seem that expensive and it gets you away from that narrow width range rear end situation. Just have to brace up the shell since it has a bracket welded between the existing tubs and the the upper rear body and the rear seat brace. Again though, a Ford 9" housing is pretty cheap and you can get them made-to-order in practically any width including disk brakes. Unsure yet which way to go.
I think I'd like a tire a little bit wider than the stock ones for more grip on the road. Definately canning the bias plies on it right now! lol I'd just be happy to have my Fatmans on right now! Then I could see how the front original tires will look for sizing and how the Fatmans has set it.
I'll call you as soon as I know my trip details, promise it won't be the day before! lol
Jay
Good Morning Jay,
No problem, I'll be around when you call, then we can arrange to meet somewhere or I'll pick you up. Thanks for your comprehensive updated input.
On my last Hornet I had I believe 235 x 60R x 15 and mag wheels, however my car was hard steering; I suffer from shoulder problem and turning, parking etc., didn't help...Sounds crazy, because of shoulder pain I sold the best Hudson I ever owned and still regret it, I did't want to go back to stock 7 x 60 x15 tires and original Hudson rims which would have made car easier to handle, I should have arranged to install power steering and kept the car. See pictures of this black beauty...0 -
Sweet pics dude! That tire size looks fine. Know what you mean though, wish I'd never sold my '38 Dodge 5w Coupe! Did you order the power rack with your Fatmans? I did, so hopefully will have no problems whatever tire size I run.0
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jsrail wrote:Hey Ray, just waiting to hear back from a client before I know when I'm coming to LV.
I'm also thinking about using 16"s. Because I'm c-notching the rear frame, I am thinking about putting in new steel wheel tubs. They don't seem that expensive and it gets you away from that narrow width range rear end situation. Just have to brace up the shell since it has a bracket welded between the existing tubs and the the upper rear body and the rear seat brace. Again though, a Ford 9" housing is pretty cheap and you can get them made-to-order in practically any width including disk brakes. Unsure yet which way to go.
I think I'd like a tire a little bit wider than the stock ones for more grip on the road. Definately canning the bias plies on it right now! lol I'd just be happy to have my Fatmans on right now! Then I could see how the front original tires will look for sizing and how the Fatmans has set it.
I'll call you as soon as I know my trip details, promise it won't be the day before! lol
Jay
Hi Jay,
I'm sure you realize this but some noob's on the site may not...to tub the stepdown with anything wider you'd have to move the inner frame channel in towards centerline to give you clearance. C-Notching only give axle clearance for lowering.0
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