35 T running rough

35 Terraplane

My 35 T has started running rough.  I removed the distributor cap and found the rotor appears to be arched at the center contact and the tip.  Would this be indicative of a failing / bad condenser?
Any help would be appreciated.
Tom

Geoff

That's quite normal.   You need to do a bit more analysing.  compression, spark, timing, mixture?

35 Terraplane

Thanks Geoff

tigermoth

I consider Geoff the world’s number 1 authority on all things mechanical regarding Hudson’s. So I will gladly accept any correction to my following on this post. 

 Tom, since you mentioned condenser, I believe the first place you would see the effects of a bad condenser would be in the points.

This statement is only mentioned because of Tom’s original post.

I agree 100% with Geoff’s response.

Regards, (another) Tom

Geoff

Having seen the picture, I thinkyou need to look at the carbon button in the centre of the cap.  It is not normal for the spring arm contact to be burnt in  this manner.  I think you will find the center button eroded away, and will need a new distributor cap.   

Old Fogey UK

Geoff said:

Having seen the picture, I thinkyou need to look at the carbon button in the centre of the cap.  It is not normal for the spring arm contact to be burnt in  this manner.  I think you will find the center button eroded away, and will need a new distributor cap.   

Geoff - have you read my thread about interchangeability of Terraplane distributor parts ?
The distributor cap on my friend's 32 Terraplane has an eroded button and he needs to find a replacement cap but his distributor is not the type used on 1932 cars (he doesn't know what it's off but thinks it's for a later Terraplane) and therefore wonders if he can use a cap, rotor and points for any Terraplane.
Alternatively, he needs to find a 1932 distributor - which isn't going to be easy in England.

ken1962

Most if not all distributors have a model number stamped on the side of the barrel... I'd at least start there... Once you know the part number you can easy find out the year and type of replacement parts used for that unit... Cheers ken 

Old Fogey UK

The problem is that my friend with the 1932 Terraplane 6 is dyslexic and can't do any web research himself.
He thinks his distributor (Autolite IGW-4103A) is off a 1936 Hudson 6 which I guess would have been the same as the 1936 Terraplane.
If that is correct, according to my research, any Hudson or Terraplane distributor parts 1935-47 will fit his distributor.
Does anyone know the right answer ? I am tearing my hair out trying to help my friend on this
one !?

bob ward

Distributor carbon buttons can be DIYed and fitted to the centre spring. If the centre spring is RS the spring from a biro or similar can be adapted.
Wildrick have Terraplane distributor caps.

Old Fogey UK

bob ward said:

Distributor carbon buttons can be DIYed and fitted to the centre spring. If the centre spring is RS the spring from a biro or similar can be adapted.
Wildrick have Terraplane distributor caps.

Hi Bob,
The carbon button on his spring cap is fixed and the top of the rotor has a flat spring on it.
That's the problem; if it was spring loaded (like on Hudson 8 distributor caps) it could easily mended as you say - I've done it myself a few times many years ago.
My friend's car has been what the British call "bodged" - meaning that it's been restored using parts from different years and/or makes that have been adapted/tortured to fit.
He was too excited about buying the car to listen to people's warnings and is now suffering the consequences !

eddiehudson

Fogey These are 6 cyl

CAP 1927-33ET IGB 1031, 1934-47ALL IGB 1240

ROTOR 1927-33ET IGB1002, 1934-47ALL IGB 1239 

Old Fogey UK

eddiehudson said:

Fogey These are 6 cyl

CAP 1927-33ET IGB 1031, 1934-47ALL IGB 1240

ROTOR 1927-33ET IGB1002, 1934-47ALL IGB 1239 

Thanks Eddie.
Do you know what Autolite distributor IGW-4103A was used on because that's what he needs parts for ?

Glowplug

The IGW-4103A Distributor factory installed in the 1938 Series 83 6 engine.

Service parts for this distributor are:

IGB1240 - Distributor Cap
IGW3028S - Contact points
IGB1239 - Rotor
IGW1025J  Condenser  --  This condenser is .20-.25 MFD per Autolite manual
IG4650 - Coil

Information source:   1942 Chilton Flat Rate and Service manual 

EddieHudson's information is identical to that in this manual.

Old Fogey UK

Glowplug said:

The IGW-4103A Distributor factory installed in the 1938 Series 83 6 engine.

Service parts for this distributor are:

IGB1240 - Distributor Cap
IGW3028S - Contact points
IGB1239 - Rotor
IGW1025J  Condenser  --  This condenser is .20-.25 MFD per Autolite manual
IG4650 - Coil

Information source:   1942 Chilton Flat Rate and Service manual 

EddieHudson's information is identical to that in this manual.

Terrific!
Thank you very much indeed.
I'll be able to help my friend order his parts now.

Geoff

The distributor cap on ealry models was "squatter" than  the later ones, hence, even though a later one may fit okay, the tern inals are sitting higher, resulting in arcing from the button to the rotor, which looks to be the case in the illustrated rotor.  

bob ward

Old Fogey UK said:

My friend's car has been what the British call "bodged" - meaning that it's been restored using parts from different years and/or makes that have been adapted/tortured to fit.

A good word 'bodged' its still very much in use in the southern colonies. 

Geoff

We call it "cobbled" here. "Bodgied" usually means  thrown together out of sundry bits, or unorthodoxly modified.  

Old Fogey UK

Talking of "bodged " cars, the phrase "It looks like it's been painted with a dead bird" has always been a favourite of mine when it comes to describing a poor paint job. ?

MikeSheridan

We call it FUBAR in the United States.

35 Terraplane

So finally getting back to tuning the 35 T.  After emailing with Geoff C in NZ I think I've figured out what my problem is.   A shop here in Auburn NY purchased much of the tooling for molding distributor caps and rotors from Echlin and other.  The owner tells me he uses the original heavy duty Bakelite for both.  Says the parts that are coming from off shore use a different inferior material that tend to "leak electrically".  The web site is taromfg.com.  Anyway I've attached a few pic of the cap & rotor I purchased from them.  

ajet

Thanks Tom, taromfg.com has an amazing selection of ignition parts .. and from your experience , the knowledge also !

  Bill

35 Terraplane

The current spark plugs in my engine AutoLite 295.  When I search for them I find 295 resistor type and 295 non-resistor type.  Does it make a difference in which is used?

Toddh

35 Terraplane:   I run the non-resistor 295 plugs in my ‘34 Terraplane 

35 Terraplane

Toddh, thanks for the reply. I’ve ordered a fresh set of the non-resistor 295’s. What did you gap them at?

Toddh

.022”.   Do you have the resistor on your distributor?   

35 Terraplane

I don’t think so, should there be?   I’ll check tomorrow as I just received a new condenser from Brillman today. Plugs are supposed to be here Sunday. I’ve been running down things in the ignition system and have found a few things. I’ll write a summary once I the run down is complete. 

Toddh

It’s an open wound resistor mounted on the outside of my distributor. The primary wire from your coil goes to one side of it and the other side is connected to the distributor primary connection

Toddh

make sure you’re not running resistor plug wires.  Have you done a compression check yet?  Vacuum tested?

35 Terraplane

My car was retrofitted at some point eliminating the original ElectroLock coil and replacing it with a separate key switch and in this case a Ford coil mounted on the fire wall with terminals facing down.  Funny thing the mounting bracket on the Ford coil lined right up with mounting nuts fixed it the fire wall.  I replaced the wiring, except HT leads, in 2016 with a set made by Rhode Island Wiring.  The HT leads were replaced in 1998 by my father-in-law.  I assume they are correct for the non-resistor type plug.  I plan on replacing them.  

Upon advice from Geoff C, I traced down a few things.  Had battery voltage thru the starter relay, cutout relay, circuit board under the dash to the key switch BAT terminal. 

With full battery voltage at the BAT T with the switch on,  got a drop of 0.4 volts across the BAT to the ING / ACC terminals.  With all wires removed from SW got 1.3 to 1.5 OHMS across the BAT to the ING / ACC terminals.

At the distributor terminal it had dropped to 5.93 V.

I’d tracked down a new key switch over the winter.  It’s a Pollak #31-122P, a div of Standard Motor Products, made in Mexico.  It feels robust. I had to wait about 4 weeks for it as they only make this model to order.  0.01 OHM’s across its terminals. After installing it had 6.39 volts at the BAT T, dropped to 6.3 V across the BAT to the ING / ACC terminals. At the distributor terminal it had dropped to 6.31 V.  

I checked the OHM’s across the Ford coil as I’ve seen done on the net not knowing if it is a full true test of the coils health.  1.3 across the primary and 3.6K across the primary/secondary.

Installed a new Standard Motor Products coil UC14 from O’Reilly’s.

Installed a new “Condenser for Autolite / Prestolite Distributors” from Brillman.  

Installed new AutoLite 295 non-resistor spark plugs.

Installed New Cap & Rotor

Points looked to be in order with no pitting.  Gave them a slight filing. 

The distributor was set as shown in the attached pic turned to max on the advance arm slot.  Used a TDC whistle on #1 to get close then lined up the first mark on the flywheel with the pointer.

I used BIG SKY’s method from his excellent description in a 2018 post to reposition the distributor so the hold down bolt is in the middle of the advance arm slot.  

https://openforum.hetclub.org/discussion/171643/timing-marks-initial-timing-w-o-light#latest

Lined it all up.  Set full choke, once the gas got to the carb she fired right up.  Slowly pushed the choke in and she settled into a decent idle.  

I’m searching the Forum for instruction on the use of the vacuum gauge method for timing.  I’m waiting on the Snap On guy to let me know if they’ll repair or replace my late 60’s compression gauge.  It no longer holds the max pressure on the gauge making it difficult to get a good reading.  Will report back again later.

Toddh

What model Terraplane do you have?   I ask because it’s possible you have the wrong carburetor on the car.  Most of the Terraplane models that year had a Carter carburetor with automatic choke (Climatic Control). However, the commercial cars and the very basic Terraplane model had manual choke. 

35 Terraplane

My car is the base Special G model with the manual choke and cutout relay. I had Daytona Carb rebuilt the Carter 311S last fall. Had Jeremy Burris rebuild the fuel pump shortly before that.