suicide solution

bent metal

Running board fit up.

bent metal

One more pic.

bent metal

Rounded the front of the running board. Didn't look right straight.

bent metal

Come on, no comments? Good or bad, lets hear some feed back. I know I'm not expert on metal shaping. Any suggestions would be appreciated.:)

rambos_ride

bent metal wrote:

Come on, no comments? Good or bad, lets hear some feed back. I know I'm not expert on metal shaping. Any suggestions would be appreciated.:)

Paint it already!

Does the customer want them smooth?

I'd probably want to add some ribs in the top.

Unknown

bent metal wrote:

Come on, no comments? Good or bad, lets hear some feed back. I know I'm not expert on metal shaping. Any suggestions would be appreciated.:)

It is difficult to offer suggestions when you know you can not do that quality of work. Don't stop posting pictures if there is no immediate response. A lot of us enjoy watching a craftsman perform work we cannot accomplish and our praise is silent awe.

[Deleted User]

Bent metal -



Really great work, curving the ends of the running boards is a really nice solution. I'm ready to start rust repair on my '46 Pickup and your work is a great inspiration.

What thickness of metal do you recommend for replacing sections of the fenders, doors, and hood? 20 Gauge? And how about floor repair and the pickup bed? Would these be 16 Gauge? Any thoughts would be most appreciated.



Tom

bent metal

Thanks guys! I thought no one was even looking at my posts. It's nice to know that other people are interested in what I'm doing.



The running boards are going to stay smooth. Plus they're 16 gauge, I'd rather not shape metal that thick. The guy I'm doing this for tends to build his cars sorta' 80's style. Boyd style I guess you would say. So he will have some chrome but mostly shaved and smoothed. Then when you open the hood it will be all polished aluminum, I'm sure.:D



As for that truck project and what metal thickness to use. I always measure what the original metal was. Usually the fenders and body are 19 gauge (.040). But don't just go down to your metal supplier and ask for that. Take something to measure with and make sure you get .040, give or take a few thousands. Some suppliers have large tolerances as to what they can call a certain gauge. Like my local supplier, he doesn't have odd number gauge material. Only even numbers and his thickness tolerances actually overlap. So what he sells as 18 is actually 19. When I went in to order 19 they told me there is no such thing as 19 gauge, only 18 or 20. I had to go in their yard and measure it myself. In my opinion that's dishonest, they charge more for what they are "calling" thicker material. Even though it's NOT the thicker material.



As for your bed, they used a couple different thicknesses. Depending on what area you are working on. I would find a good spot to measure whatever area you are in and match that. I assume you are aware that you can get a real nice tail gate from Glenn Johnson and someone in Canada makes running boards that look super nice too.

bent metal

The door bottoms are ready to be welded on. .....FINALLY!:D

bent metal

Another view.

bent metal

I have been doing some inner-structure stuff that wouldn't make for very interesting pictures. But, here's an update. Patched the old bottom hinge area,.....

bent metal

The "A" pillar was rusted out in an area that I thought was strange.



Ever wonder what the inside of the "A" pillar looks like?:rolleyes: ...Me neither, but here it is anyway.:D

bent metal

Okay, this is the inside.:) It came out alright, since you can't get to the back side I couldn't really do anything about the warpage from welding. It'll work though. ...On to the running boards.:)

[Deleted User]

Bent Metal,

I have two questions for you:

#1. I was looking at the photograph of the door skin that is being welded in. It looks like you have tack welded every inch, as per what I have seen in magazines. However, it looks like you are welding it solid from one end to the other? Shouldn't you skip around the weld seem in order to minimize the warpage? As per what I have read?



#2. In the photograph of the A-pillar repair. When the outer skin is removed it looks like there is alot of rust on the hidden sheet metal. Do you paint or treat that metal in some way before welding it up?



I'm not trying to be critical here, I just want to understand the process a little bit better.



Mr. Chapin

bent metal

Hi Mr. Chapin. To answer your question, I can only speak for myself and I'm not saying my current way is right or that I might not try something new in the future. But the way I weld a seam in a door like you are talking about is to spot weld every inch (max.) planish the weld and check the fit with the door back on the car. Then go back and weld it solid from one end to the other, as you had mentioned. I don't skip around on this because I have good access to the back of the weld. I believe the only reason that the magazines tell people to skip around is because it reduces warpage some and if a guy is new to this kind of thing then skipping around would help him keep things under control. It is going to warp, no matter what you do. That's just scientific fact. If you heat a ferrous metal up enough to melt it, it WILL shrink. So to answer your question: "Yep, I weld as far as I can reach. Pull some more rod out and weld as far as I can reach again, from one end of the panel to the other."

As for the inside of an otherwise inaccessible area, yes I do remove the rust and prime the area depending on how far the boss wants me to go. I atleast will wire brush the area and paint it with a rust inhibiting primer. Some guys want me to patch those inside areas as well, some don't. I didn't post pictures of that part because this thread is getting pretty long and I'm trying to basically just show the highlights so people don't get bored with the project. The customer however will get pictures of all of that stuff, they won't get bored because it's their car.:)

I hope I answered your question, if not, ask me again and I'll try again. I'm learning as I go so if you have another opinion about how to do something I would be interested in hearing your point of view. I know that the way I do things today is different then how I did them five years ago. Always trying to improve. Besides, I love talking about metal, and cars.:D

Here's a picture for you. I don't think this area will get wet again and it's still solid, so just a wire brushing and a good priming should do.

Unknown

bent metal wrote:

Hi Mr. Chapin. To answer your question, I can only speak for myself and I'm not saying my current way is right or that I might not try something new in the future. But the way I weld a seam in a door like you are talking about is to spot weld every inch (max.) planish the weld and check the fit with the door back on the car. Then go back and weld it solid from one end to the other, as you had mentioned. I don't skip around on this because I have good access to the back of the weld. I believe the only reason that the magazines tell people to skip around is because it reduces warpage some and if a guy is new to this kind of thing then skipping around would help him keep things under control. It is going to warp, no matter what you do. That's just scientific fact. If you heat a ferrous metal up enough to melt it, it WILL shrink. So to answer your question: "Yep, I weld as far as I can reach. Pull some more rod out and weld as far as I can reach again, from one end of the panel to the other."
As for the inside of an otherwise inaccessible area, yes I do remove the rust and prime the area depending on how far the boss wants me to go. I atleast will wire brush the area and paint it with a rust inhibiting primer. Some guys want me to patch those inside areas as well, some don't. I didn't post pictures of that part because this thread is getting pretty long and I'm trying to basically just show the highlights so people don't get bored with the project. The customer however will get pictures of all of that stuff, they won't get bored because it's their car.:)
I hope I answered your question, if not, ask me again and I'll try again. I'm learning as I go so if you have another opinion about how to do something I would be interested in hearing your point of view. I know that the way I do things today is different then how I did them five years ago. Always trying to improve. Besides, I love talking about metal, and cars.:D
Here's a picture for you. I don't think this area will get wet again and it's still solid, so just a wire brushing and a good priming should do.

Bent Metal:

Where are you located and do you hold night classes? Maybe you should start a school for DIY's. :rolleyes:

I had looked into some of the local trade schools to take some basic welding and body work classes, but all they offer is full two year programs. The Vo-tech's associated with the public schools do not have any evening adult classes. I guess it is back to books, DVD's and trail and error.

bent metal

I would love to teach a classs some day. Maybe after I get more experience and I get to where I feel like I can competently answer questions. Right now I think I have more questions than answers. Oh, I'm located in Southern California.

As for my personal education goes. I guess I don't really have a proper education. I started out reading a lot of magazine articles on metal shaping. But the more you read the more they contradict each other. So you have to sort it out in your head, kind of discard some of the information as a guys personal superstition or quirk. Like one guy will only grind the back of a weld and plannish. The next guy will grind both sides then plannish. Both jobs come out fine, so which is the right way to do it? I don't know, which ever works best for you I guess. What I ended up doing is watching a lot of videos and going to these weekend classes. In perticular the Ron Covell classes. But he does everything by "hand". He's good at that hammer and dolly work and he promotes that style of metal shaping. It's a good way to get started and you can actually build an entire car body that way. It would take forever, but you could do it. After taking several of those classes Mr. Covell suggested that I should go a step further and take a Fay Butler class. Which I did. Fay Butler can make entire body parts or cars without even picking up a hand held body hammer. He tries to use only the big machines and does very little with a hand held body hammer. He's the best of the best, and his work proves it. He also doesn't grind his welds! Not at all! I have seen an entire front clip (Lotus) that he made and I couldn't see a tooling mark or a grind mark on it anywhere. It's amazing.

So my recamendation would be as you said, books and videos. Maybe look up Ron Covell and see when he will be in your area and what class he will be teaching at that time. After you get some experience think more seriously about taking a class with Fay Butler in Massachussettes. Maybe talk to Fay right now too? Just understand that he is like taking an advanced course and you should have some experience before going to see him. Check him out at http://www.faybutler.com/

Atleast that's what I did.

bent metal

I've thought about using that POR-15, everyone seems to like it. I use a fast drying primer right now.

This is what I ended up doing for the running boards. I tried to keep it simple and strong. It might of looked nicer to extend the existing running board brackets in the same shape that they are already in. But I didn't do that. I'll make removable plugs for the end of the square tubing later.

The blue tape line is where I'm planning on cutting to widen the back fender.:)

Unknown

SRCraftsman2 wrote:

Bent Metal:



Where are you located and do you hold night classes? Maybe you should start a school for DIY's. :rolleyes:



I had looked into some of the local trade schools to take some basic welding and body work classes, but all they offer is full two year programs. The Vo-tech's associated with the public schools do not have any evening adult classes. I guess it is back to books, DVD's and trail and error.

It's about as far away from PA as you can get, but here's a weekend class for you http://www.sunchasertools.com/.



My buddy took it and learned a lot that he didn't learn when he went to restoration college at McPhearson. I'd like to take it sometime this year. It's a good hands on introduction.



Bent Metal - Keep up the great work!

bent metal

Okay, here's what's new. I think I will only have to take the running boards off again one more time! Just to weld the back piece on where it will meet the rear fender. That's alright because I forgot to take picture of the under side of them anyhow. Ooops. The pictures are to give you an idea of how low this thing is. With no motor or trans, or interior, or anything else, the running board is still a half inch lower than a soda can. I think it's coming together nice, the owner had some really good ideas. IMO. I like it!

bent metal

It's going to drag on a squished soda can! haha:D Here's some other views.

The lower hinge was just sort of hanging there, waiting for me to get a decent fit on the outer door skin. Once I got the fit satisfactory, I completed the inner structure (diagonal piece), which triangulated the whole thing and made it strong. The three holes I added because I think it made it look cool, and it adds a little strength too. ...Rambo talked me into buying that hole punch press and I love it! I want to put flanged holes in everything!:D The concave door skin is at the owners request. I think it makes the car more quite when it's all done. That's just screwed in, of course.

bent metal

More pictures.:) ...And that's about it, next stop, the rear fenders.

Unknown

This thing is BAD A$$$$$ Guy..Tell your mom and dad hi for me. Ron

bent metal

Ron P wrote:

This thing is BAD A$$$$$ Guy..Tell your mom and dad hi for me. Ron

Thanks Ron, too bad I don't get to keep it. I'll tell my folks and hope to see you in San Diego this weekend.:) Also, do you think you could show me a picture of you water distribution tube on your '29? I need to make one of those.:)

Unknown

I could do you one better and mail you a new stainless reproduction that John Meadows from Australia sent me. The original on my 29 is still in good shape and will be quite awhile before I need the new one. PM me your address or I can send it to your parents house. How soon do you need it ? Also someone on here was looking for the same but for a 1930-31 8 cylinder witch is not the same.

rambos_ride

Glad the hole punch is working out - now I have to buy one

Hey - just a suggestion...the "filler" panel you have screwed on, maybe a small bead around the perimeter and a couple short ones lengthwise - it'd look better and not want to warble when driving down the road @ mach1

Not that I want to make more work for you that the customer won't pay for and no one but a mechanic will ever see
:eek:

Unknown

Well... Seeing all that really gets me motivated to do something with my 41..

bent metal

rambos_ride wrote:

Glad the hole punch is working out - now I have to buy one



Hey - just a suggestion...the "filler" panel you have screwed on, maybe a small bead around the perimeter and a couple short ones lengthwise - it'd look better and not want to warble when driving down the road @ mach1



Not that I want to make more work for you that the customer won't pay for and no one but a mechanic will ever see

:eek:

You know, I laid awake all night before I made those two pieces (the diagonal and that flat one). I got a little fancy on the diagonal, but I think that was important. The 'flat' piece isn't really flat. I wheeled it on my english wheel enough to dish it in about three eighths in the center and I left the outside flat. It can't oil can/warble, it's like a great big dish. I thought about making beads on that panel but the boss specifically asked me to just put a flat piece in there and move on. I think I was pushing it to do as much as I did.:D That panel looks flat until you take it off and set it on a table, then you can really see how much shape it has.:)

The next car will get beads rolled in like your talking about, that would of been faster and easier.

bent metal

Projekt wrote:

Well... Seeing all that really gets me motivated to do something with my 41..

Good good!!! I hope you do. Did you notice that we removed the wind wings? I think it makes the car look lower and longer. Almost looks chopped, almost.:)

bent metal

Started on the back fenders today. I haven't worked out the details yet, but I needed to get something done.:)