Stirring The Pot: The Real Truth Hudson Resto Vs. Rod
Comments
-
Great thread! With so many strong feelings held, its an exercise in tact, if nothing else.
The traditional decision point on whether to rod or restore a given automobile has been "what's it worth restored, as opposed to rodded?". Back in the day, it was common knowledge that as soon as you modified a "classic", the value went right down the tube. That's been turned on its head of late, it seems- the "tribute" (PC word for "cloned") cars on Barrett Jackson seem to bring as much or more than the stockers, and the street rods have passed up their corresponding restored versions in many cases. Its interesting that the de-facto decision point for Hudsons seems to have changed from merely "value", to the historical significance or rarity of the model. The two avenues are converging, at least in the stepdown years, as the marketplace seems to be recognizing the rarity of Hollywoods, 'verts, and even coupes. But the earlier models are the rub- the old Essexes and Terraplanes should be worth a lot more than they are, if stock, but the demand just isn't there (same problem as the Model A Fords- the old guys who fondly remember them from their youth are dying off). Given that driving them in stock configuration is more "interesting" than fun to the younger crowd, they are gonna get rodded, and the purists are gonna be upset. It has always been thus. In the final analysis, the marketplace is going to decide the issue, because only the true Hudson purists are wrestling with the historical issue; if the price goes low enough that it makes financial sense for a rodder to go after it, it'll happen, without so much as a thought for destruction of historical significance. That's just the way the world works.
Kahuna's post was interesting to me- seems his late uncle and I are on opposite sides of the same coin. Uncle wanted 'em to look stock, but "carry a big stick" - I've got an early 50's style custom (sectioned, frenched headlights, custom grill, continental kit, etc,) powered by a Twin-H 308. It generates all kinds of interest at car shows, and I'm going to keep it as is- kind of a period piece. I've gotta admit, though, when I go to shows I'm a little envious of the air-conditioned, power-steering guys with whumpa engines that'll put them sideways whenever they get the notion. Meanwhile, I'm cooking in my 3 speed non-working OD, that gets you down the road, but not real comfortably. But I just can't bear to mess up that engine compartment with a bunch of compressors, hoses, etc.
So the dilemma (for everyone, it seems) continues. . .0 -
Good insight Mike. I think your 308 powered Hud is cool. I have nothing against them, I just don't want one. It seems that there will probably always be at least one car sitting in some museum to show the original cars to the public who may be interested. And I'm sure there will be Hud guys who will keep their legacy going now and in the future. I don't think Hudsons are going down into obscurity.
But, for the remander cars, you are right, the market and trends will define them. Don't let the Rat Rodders learn about the Essex's, folks will really hate what they do to them! lol0 -
I got my 46 4dr sedan from an Alabama junk yark sunk up to rockers in red clay. It had not ran since 1970 or before and had an inline chevy 6 with a cast iron case powerglide in it. rest was original. I pulled motor put in a dam small black 350 in it and drive it every day. Did I hurt the car? I do not think so other than flat black primer it looks original. but at Hudson meets I have had a member or two here in Ohio tell me to park in the street rod area. but for the most part the other members want me there for comparison or what ever. thats why I became the badhudson. I will never forget Dearborn national meet there was a 1920's or 1930's limo there and all the people could say was how it had been ruined.. I thought it was a nice example of a Hudson...kinda fun listening to the people bash it.. gave me and my wife a laugh all the way home0
-
BADHUDSON wrote:I got my 46 4dr sedan from an Alabama junk yark sunk up to rockers in red clay. It had not ran since 1970 or before and had an inline chevy 6 with a cast iron case powerglide in it. rest was original. I pulled motor put in a dam small black 350 in it and drive it every day. Did I hurt the car? I do not think so other than flat black primer it looks original. but at Hudson meets I have had a member or two here in Ohio tell me to park in the street rod area. but for the most part the other members want me there for comparison or what ever. thats why I became the badhudson. I will never forget Dearborn national meet there was a 1920's or 1930's limo there and all the people could say was how it had been ruined.. I thought it was a nice example of a Hudson...kinda fun listening to the people bash it.. gave me and my wife a laugh all the way home
Great story badhudson, shouldn't happen, but I guess there will always be those folks. Guess I would have had a good laugh as well.0 -
"bad Hudson" It Was Clevland And There Was 2 Of Them Both 29 Long Wb Cars With Mopar 440's In Them They Were Great You Know All This And That About Orignal And Not Who Cares I Have My Car And I Do What I Want To With It And You Can Do The Same With Yours
I Just Ask That You Drive Your Hudson Every Time You Get The Chance I Do And There Is Always Some One Asking About It Have Fun And Enjoy This Great Hobby
AS FOR ME I'M JUST A LITTLE GUY TOO SO DON'T PICK ON ME LOL
THIS IS A PHOTO OF ME HAVING FUN SELLING PARTS AT DOC'S MEET
http://www.chiltonpens.com/docsmeet06/docsmeet006.jpg0 -
I am kind of running up the middle. tweaking the 308 a little, 12v electrics with alternator, urethane bushings,gas shocks and plans to go with stiffer springs and a slight lowering. Basic tricks in most cases to hop up what it basically has. Now IMHO I don't get the whole engine,tranny, suspension, etc changes. Those are pretty major and at that point it really isn't a Hudson anymore. Might as well just have a current hot rod (i.e. Viper Corvette Impala SS Mustang whatever) I have several old cars and I have them because I like the look and feel of them. I also have newer cars for reliabilty, comfort or whatever. I guess you have the body left on these so called rods, but I personally just don't get it, but it is a free country still so far ( that's another argument all in itself) so you can do what you want and that is the way it should be. I just hope there remains a good variety of how Hudson built them out there just to continue the legacy and history.0
-
Swasp76063 wrote:. That's how I feel about it. Hot rod, stock, pink,308, 350, V6, V4, freaking two stroke, just let people alone. If they don't ask your opinion, don't give it.
My 2 cents worth. Bob
TWO STROKE - now your talking attention getter. a big 250 horse mercury outboard under the hood. but a stepdown just won't do it justice i think it needs to be in a early 30's coupe with the hood sides removed to really show it off. figure out how to couple it to a 700r4 and your on to something.0 -
BADHUDSON wrote:I got my 46 4dr sedan from an Alabama junk yark sunk up to rockers in red clay. It had not ran since 1970 or before and had an inline chevy 6 with a cast iron case powerglide in it. rest was original. I pulled motor put in a dam small black 350 in it and drive it every day. Did I hurt the car? I do not think so other than flat black primer it looks original. but at Hudson meets I have had a member or two here in Ohio tell me to park in the street rod area. but for the most part the other members want me there for comparison or what ever. thats why I became the badhudson. I will never forget Dearborn national meet there was a 1920's or 1930's limo there and all the people could say was how it had been ruined.. I thought it was a nice example of a Hudson...kinda fun listening to the people bash it.. gave me and my wife a laugh all the way home
i've never been to a hudson meet with separate streetrod parking. if its truely segregated i guess you're ride would belong with the rods, i won't argue that, but if it's a club meet in conjunction with an all vehical event and they want you to park across the road with the t-buckets and mercs and not with the hudson's i'm in your corner.
when i read your post i didn't remember a rodded limo at dearborn, but the cars i remember most vividly of the cleveland national were a 54 hollywood parts car brought in on a rollback (no bias there) it's the car i remember getting bashed and the pair of 29 biddle and smart sedans rods that paul mentions parked side by side (though they were parked a little out of the main group as i recall.) one red, one burgandy, very nicely done. i think i may have some pictures of them.
pual, for those who don't know you, you should point out that you are sitting behind your mini cooper in the picture. it is kinda tough to tell with the tailgate up and all. even though i know better, at first glance i thought it was a suburban.:) otherwise they may not understand the true perspective of the picture. Dearborn does have vivid hollywood memories for me as well (not necessarilly pleasant), i had master cylinder problems in my hollywood and was forced to brand x my way there and some little guy
with a 57 Hollywood had to swap an axle in the hotel parking lot. 0 -
LOL YEA NICK A MINI COOPER LOL Nick I Remember That Too But We Know Who Our Friends Are After That Lol After All We Did Drive Both Hollywoods Home0
-
PAULARGETYPE wrote:LOL YEA NICK A MINI COOPER LOL Nick I Remember That Too But We Know Who Our Friends Are After That Lol After All We Did Drive Both Hollywoods Home
I dont think that's a Suburban or Mini Cooper in the background I swear it looks more like a 1957 BMW Isetta!
0 -
rambos_ride wrote:
I would so drive that car. That's how crazy I am. Steve Erkel (sp?) wasn't a nerd in my eyes.I dont think that's a Suburban or Mini Cooper in the background I swear it looks more like a 1957 BMW Isetta!
Bob0 -
I saw one of these in Hemmings Sports & Exotic Cars magazine. What a fuel saver, I'd drive one as long as I didn't have to get onto the freeway. Out here someone would run over you!0
-
Guys the only thing I have a problem with by swapping the complete drivetrain over or modifying a stocker is when these guys claim they are doing it to make the car more reilable. Any car can be made reliable it all depends on how good your mechanical skills are.
I fully understand the need to update for safety's sake, like going to disc brakes to be able to stop in todays traffic or adding power steering to help get these around low speed corners.
I updated the rearend in my Pacemaker to a more readily available Ford rearend becasue you can't get some of the parts for the one that was in my Hudson. Same with the transmission which I changed to a modern GM 350 turbo because I don't want know how to work on a Dual Range Hydromatic (my brain is already full of too much useless crap.)
The commit about having to put a Chevy engine into anything that didn't come with a Chevy engine in it orginally to make it REILABLE is utter Bull $hit!
I've rebuilt enough cars and hot rodded dozens to know that you have to put in the time to make sure everything is in top knotch condition.
The mechanic that works on it and the Nut behind the wheel are what makes your ride reliable, not what brand of engine-transmission or rearend you swap in.
By the way my 1942 Hudson Deluxe six is car number 221 I've owned and its going to remain stock. Well, maybe it will get a 12 volt conversion...
later,
PaceRacer500 -
PaceRacer50 wrote:Guys the only thing I have a problem with by swapping the complete drivetrain over or modifying a stocker is when these guys claim they are doing it to make the car more reilable. Any car can be made reliable it all depends on how good your mechanical skills are.
I fully understand the need to update for safety's sake, like going to disc brakes to be able to stop in todays traffic or adding power steering to help get these around low speed corners.
I updated the rearend in my Pacemaker to a more readily available Ford rearend becasue you can't get some of the parts for the one that was in my Hudson. Same with the transmission which I changed to a modern GM 350 turbo because I don't want know how to work on a Dual Range Hydromatic (my brain is already full of too much useless crap.)
The commit about having to put a Chevy engine into anything that didn't come with a Chevy engine in it orginally to make it REILABLE is utter Bull $hit!
I've rebuilt enough cars and hot rodded dozens to know that you have to put in the time to make sure everything is in top knotch condition.
The mechanic that works on it and the Nut behind the wheel are what makes your ride reliable, not what brand of engine-transmission or rearend you swap in.
By the way my 1942 Hudson Deluxe six is car number 221 I've owned and its going to remain stock. Well, maybe it will get a 12 volt conversion...
later,
PaceRacer50
I don't care how good someone makes their car, sometimes sh*t just happens. I asked around alot here, and I found one guy who works on Hud flatheads, Hudson Al. Now, I can't afford to carry him and a bunch of spare parts around in my trunk everywhere I go in case something does happen. A water pump, fuel pump goes in the middle of nowhere, what are the chances the local mechanic happens to know how to work on Hud flatheads or even has parts, or even knows what the hell I'm driving? I venture to say, not likely. If you keep your car local or rarely long distance, you might get lucky. I put almost 200K on my Suburban (350V8) and never did anything but change the oil, plugs, and a few air filters and 1 radiator. Never a problem with the engine or tranny and always passed smog. If I needed anything, the local checkers or auto zone had everything I'd need. If I was to breakdown on the way to Las Vegas or So Cal, it would be easy to find someone to work on it right away.
I'll be driving my Coupe just like the modern cars and trucks I've owned in the past, everywhere, everyday. The suspension, maybe I can see your point, but I want mine bagged, therefore, original suspension can't work.0 -
Swasp76063 wrote:I would so drive that car. That's how crazy I am. Steve Erkel (sp?) wasn't a nerd in my eyes.
Bob
My grandpa had one of these. It was a very clean original. He took me to a parade in it in the the mid-80's. If I remember correctly, the top speed was about 35 mph.
For whatever reason, he really liked that car. It was definately unique. Given the opportunity, I think I would own one of these. I don't think I would make mine a top-fuel dragster like Steve Erkel did;) How come nobody is *****ing about that conversion?
Matt0 -
PaceRacer50 wrote:I updated the rearend in my Pacemaker to a more readily available Ford rearend becasue you can't get some of the parts for the one that was in my Hudson.
Mind If I ask what rear end you used? I am looking for a drop in replacement for the OE sealed unit.
Thanks,
Matt0 -
Round and round in circles we go! As far as breakdown preparation goes - what is most likely to fail? Fuel pump? Head gasket? Axle shaft? Valve spring? Timing gear? Easy enough to carry these spares, wrapped and out of sight in the recesses of the trunk or under the seat. You can get reliable running out of an original drive train, but you do have to be prepared for the most likely contingencies. If you aren't prepared to do this, then you have the other option. Can I re-iterate, nobody is forcing anybody to do anything here, so let's keep our attitude problems to ourselves.
Geoff.0 -
jsrail wrote:I don't care how good someone makes their car, sometimes sh*t just happens. I asked around alot here, and I found one guy who works on Hud flatheads, Hudson Al. Now, I can't afford to carry him and a bunch of spare parts around in my trunk everywhere I go in case something does happen. A water pump, fuel pump goes in the middle of nowhere, what are the chances the local mechanic happens to know how to work on Hud flatheads or even has parts, or even knows what the hell I'm driving? I venture to say, not likely. If you keep your car local or rarely long distance, you might get lucky. I put almost 200K on my Suburban (350V8) and never did anything but change the oil, plugs, and a few air filters and 1 radiator. Never a problem with the engine or tranny and always passed smog. If I needed anything, the local checkers or auto zone had everything I'd need. If I was to breakdown on the way to Las Vegas or So Cal, it would be easy to find someone to work on it right away.
I'll be driving my Coupe just like the modern cars and trucks I've owned in the past, everywhere, everyday. The suspension, maybe I can see your point, but I want mine bagged, therefore, original suspension can't work.
Carry a spare water pump, you can get a fuel pump for a hudson motor (stepdown) that will work at any auto parts store, 83 amc 6 will direct bolt, ~$14.00 at autozone, lifetime warranty.
But the reliability of the 350's is legendary.0 -
Anybody know what one of those Isetta's sell for?0
-
jsrail wrote:Anybody know what one of those Isetta's sell for?
Like others you used to be able to pick these up for a song and dance. I've seen them going for up to 7-8k :eek:
I've always liked these cars for their originality and the era they were made.
I also knew a guy in my high school who had 2 of these and 1 of them got a built VW engine in it - they thing HAD to have wheelie bars on it and it was way squirrly going down the quarter mile but fun to watch!0 -
rambos_ride wrote:Like others you used to be able to pick these up for a song and dance. I've seen them going for up to 7-8k :eek:
I've always liked these cars for their originality and the era they were made.
I also knew a guy in my high school who had 2 of these and 1 of them got a built VW engine in it - they thing HAD to have wheelie bars on it and it was way squirrly going down the quarter mile but fun to watch!
Too rich for me right now, but I think I'd be cool to drive one of these. A VW engine, I'll bet that thing was squirrly!0 -
hudsonkid wrote:Carry a spare water pump, you can get a fuel pump for a hudson motor (stepdown) that will work at any auto parts store, 83 amc 6 will direct bolt, ~$14.00 at autozone, lifetime warranty.
But the reliability of the 350's is legendary.
if the mechanic can't change a fuel or water pump on a hudson six:eek: , don't let him near your that high tech computer controlled engine actually don't let him pump your gas.head to walmart you'll find someone more qualified in the tire and lube shop there.
truthfully though, most guys running stock with a problem will be back on the road before you know where the nearest autozone is, let alone how long before it opens or how you are getting there. it doesn't matter whether i throw a rod in my flathead or a rodder does with a smallblock (now geoff on the other hand will pull out some bailing wire, duct tape and an empty tin can and be running as smooth as ever in 15 minues (that's why he's my hero), but the rest of us are pretty much screwed.
if you aren't confident in your car, you won't enjoy it. i love to drive mine, but i'm not afraid to. if it takes a small block to get you to take yours out of the garage so be it, but drive it and enjoy it.
.PAULARGETYPE wrote:LOL YEA NICK A MINI COOPER LOL Nick I Remember That Too But We Know Who Our Friends Are After That Lol After All We Did Drive Both Hollywoods Home
just think if you had a narrowed ford rearend you wouldn't need friends, and you could have spent an extra day or so enjoying the detroit area finding a junkyard axle and getting it cut to fit. of course it would make the phone calls easier if you remembered whether that rear end was from the 78 ltd.... no that was the tranny. it must be the 87 f-150 or was that the engine? oh well at least i know my parts are 54 hudson and it would be the autozone clerk with the dumb look on his face after asking "for what vehicle".:D
of course the confidence we have, comes from knowing there are friends out there who will step-up and help us out when we have a problem. have a hudson with a problem and its like pigs nosing in at a trough just to help.
i've seen guys lierally give someone else a part off their car to make sure the other got home.0 -
At least all of you guys can go to your parts store and order parts for your stepdowns, we walk in and ask for a part of and essex and they think the bloody thing is built in England. LOL:rolleyes:
Its a hard call sometimes what to do, mine is a retro rod (31) and the first thing the body shop wanted to do was to cut three inches out of the roof line, but after looking through all the hudson forums and the super6 site and finding out the history of these cars and finding the rarity of the 31 I just couldnt chop it, there is a place for all the different models and styles (rodding or not) its your preference, for me the help and infomation that has been offered (especially from what a lot of people call purists) have certainly helped me on the continual progress of my coupe. Some of them are due to go and have a look at her and will be interested in there thoughts and whether they cut me off at the ankles LOL
Maybe there just a few of us down under and we get on a bit better, I dont know but reading the last week or so of the threads you would sometime think, everyone in this forum were women in a large cat fight LOL:eek:
The whole idea of any of these forums is for the betterment of the cars themselves in which ever forms
I have had my for 23 years and I am going to shoot my body shop owner if I dont have her back on the road by Feb (birthday)
Just my two cents worth and I hope I wont need a wheel chair,( for lack of ankles) time will tell
Mike 31 Essex coupe0 -
nick s wrote:of course it would make the phone calls easier if you remembered whether that rear end was from the 78 ltd.... no that was the tranny. it must be the 87 f-150 or was that the engine? oh well at least i know my parts are 54 hudson and it would be the autozone clerk with the dumb look on his face after asking "for what vehicle".:D
Here's a tip for you nick, when I built my 85 Jimmy, I bought a service book and wrote down inside the front cover all the non-stock stuff on my truck, like the '89 Dana 60 w/ 4:56 gears, 74 Chevy 3/4 ton corp 14 bolt rear end, 85 vette TPI w/ 19lb injectors, etc. That way I always knew what I needed that wasn't stock. When I sold the truck, I gave the book to the new owner.0 -
essexcoupe3131 wrote:I have had my for 23 years and I am going to shoot my body shop owner if I dont have her back on the road by Feb (birthday)
Just my two cents worth and I hope I wont need a wheel chair,( for lack of ankles) time will tell
Mike 31 Essex coupe
Mike, your car is cool. So if anyone gives you any crap, I'll sick my dog on them! lol I need some more pics dude!0 -
You are right about loaning parts off your car to get someone else home, I've done it. Let's see, in quite a few miles of motoring I've had just as many problems with modern cars letting me down, and perhaps more, than I have old stuff. My recent memories are: Alternator going out in my F150, thank God for Optima batteries; Alternator going out in Tahoe I had before that, left me walking in the rain in a suit; previous S-10 dropping a valve on the freeway at 38,000 miles [2.2]; 89 Chevy pickup losing 3rd and 4th gear, and another Tahoe losing an EGR solenoid while pulling my Hudson! My Hudson has crapped babbitt out of rods on two occasions (Babbitt has a shelf life!) but limped home both times, and the button fell out of the distributor cap so it didn't contact the rotor, which I replaced in a nice gent's driveway. The worst my 65 Plymouth has ever done to me is overheat and pop a rubber expansion plug. I have literally driven Model As home with the spark fully retarded, knocking so bad you thought the motor was going to fall out. But an old car has never left me walking! It's just reality, modern cars may have modern technology, but suffer due to complexity. The fewer things are on a car, the fewer things that can fail.
Oh, and if I catch any of you rodders measuring my roofline or making off with my chrome, I'll sick Harley (dog) on you... and you'd better know the German word for letting go! :-)
Best Regards,
James Coats0 -
I don't know how this got off on Isettas instead of Hudsons but I've got some memories of when I was a teenager of one in particular. In the '50s my dad had a service station and it was a REAL service station. One of our customers purchased a brand new Isetta and would use it to pull his 16' boat with trailer. I swear to you it's true. It was really funny to see it going down the road especially if you were behind it since you could not see the car, only the boat and trailer going down the highway. Since he only had one leg (our customer Mr. Waters) it was easy for him to get out of it and at night when he would come home from work he would just back it up onto his front porch and it would be ready to go in the morning. He didn't need a garage. Just fun car memories from the '50s.
Peace,
Chaz0 -
jamcoats wrote:Oh, and if I catch any of you rodders measuring my roofline or making off with my chrome, I'll sick Harley (dog) on you... and you'd better know the German word for letting go! :-)
Best Regards,
James Coats
Why would I want any of your chrome?0 -
mrsbojigger wrote:I don't know how this got off on Isettas instead of Hudsons but I've got some memories of when I was a teenager of one in particular. In the '50s my dad had a service station and it was a REAL service station. One of our customers purchased a brand new Isetta and would use it to pull his 16' boat with trailer. I swear to you it's true. It was really funny to see it going down the road especially if you were behind it since you could not see the car, only the boat and trailer going down the highway. Since he only had one leg (our customer Mr. Waters) it was easy for him to get out of it and at night when he would come home from work he would just back it up onto his front porch and it would be ready to go in the morning. He didn't need a garage. Just fun car memories from the '50s.
Peace,
Chaz
That's funny Chaz! From the side I'll bet it looked like the boat was pushing the car!0 -
Jay,
Yep!
chaz0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- 37K All Categories
- 106 Hudson 1916 - 1929
- 19 Upcoming Events
- 91 Essex Super 6
- 28.6K HUDSON
- 561 "How To" - Skills, mechanical and other wise
- 993 Street Rods
- 150 American Motors
- 174 The Flathead Forum
- 49 Manuals, etc,.
- 78 Hudson 8
- 44 FORUM - Instructions and Tips on using the forum
- 2.8K CLASSIFIEDS
- 602 Vehicles
- 2.1K Parts & Pieces
- 77 Literature & Memorabilia
- Hudson 1916 - 1929 Yahoo Groups Archived Photos