35 Terraplane Electrical Questions

35 Terraplane

Hello All, 
I've decided it's time to do some work on the wiring on my 35 Terraplane.  The one picture is the junction of the head light wiring on the left front near the radiator.You can see the insulation is gone.  Other wires are in similar shape and have been taped up over the years before I got the car. 
Decided to start at the back and disassembled the tail light, this car only has one.  The wires off the tail light have tape on one spot and a breach in the insulation in another spot.  The socket for the tail light is part of the tail light unit.  The spring connectors work but show a little corrosion on the back side.  Is there a way to remove the wires from the spring connector.  It looks like the part inside the socket that touches the bulb is like a rivet head.  If not I guess I'll have to make a splice which I'm not wide about or just tape them up and put them back in service. 
Another issue is that at some point the inside of the tail light was spray painted with silver and there is over spray on the license plate lens. Do you think paint stripper would damage the lens? 
Regards,
Tom King
Auburn, Ny

Jon B

You can make your own wiring harness with new wire (of the appropriate gauge for each circuit), by removing the various harnesses (engine, taillight, dashboard, etc.) and laying them out (for example, tacking them to a 4' x 8' plywood sheet so they won't move around).  Then you can simply lay the new wire out next to the old, tape the various new wires to one another so they stay reasonably together in a bunch.
 
If you wish, buy some of that old fashioned asphalt wire loom (looks authentic, comes in different diameters) and slide the new wiring into that.  Then it will look authentic until the new wire emerges at the other end of the loom.

Of course, you can buy modern plastic wire that has had a cloth covering sewn over it, so the wires will look truly authentic.


OR you could just spend some real money and buy a true, authentic-looking wiring harness for your car from Rhode Island, Y 'n' Z's, or Narragansett.   $505 for a '35 model "G" from Harnesses Unlimited, in Pennsylvania. $1038 from Y 'n' Z's but probably has more wires

Not sure what you mean by "spring connector".  Did you possibly mean the terminal within the socket, in your taillight?  If so, you can buy those right off the shelf at your local car parts place.  New spring, contact, insulator and wire.


I would use lacquer thinner to clean off the overspray, being careful not to get it on any paint that you wish NOT to come off.  Assuming the lens is glass, you have nothing to worry about.

Geoff

Paint stripper will not damage the glass lens at all

BillUSN1

For cleaning stains and dirt off of glass and plastic lenses you can wash in muriatic acid. It is also used for pool cleaning so can be bought in lots of places.

35 Terraplane

Jon, Geoff,
Guess I used the wrong description saying spring connector   It would be the terminal within the socket as you indicated. I'm not sure how I could make the type you show above work.  I'm not sure I could get the original one apart.  When I pull on the wire there's a metal sleeve the wire goes into.  The metal sleeve is in the bore of the tube nipple on the back of the tail light housing.  The spring is under the button or rivet that makes contact with the bulb inside the bulb socket.  The part I'm stumped about is how to get onto the wires at the back of the socket at the metal sleeve.  I was thinking of striping back the old wire near the connector sleeves and soldering or crimping on a bullet connector like the ones currently on the ends of the wires. The other option would be to solder the new wires to the old wires and put some heat shrink on the joint.

The pig tail wires from the tail light connect to armored wire that runs
to the front of the car. I copied the attached picture from the Rhode
Island Wiring web site.  My plan is to remove one section of the harness
at a time and remake it or have it remade.  I've spoken to the folks at
RIW.  If I send them the original sections they will make new ones.

The lens is glass so I'll go with paint stripper to get the silver paint off it.

Another little item is the gasket that cushions the lens.  Figured I'd carefully remove the existing one, maybe soak it in water to soften it, flatten it out and cut a new one from cork sheet.

I'll keep you posted as I move along with this.
Regards,
Tom

Jon B

I could be (and often am!) wrong, but I think that if you clipped off the fabric-covered wires and pushed them through the sleeves that protrude from the back of the socket, the entire double contact assembly (with spring, contacts and insulator) will come right out the front of the socket.  I'm fairly sure that those fabric-covered wires slide freely within the metal collars (though after 80 years they may need some coaxing).

Then you could insert a double-contact replacement through the front, carefully guiding each new wire through its sleeve, then "bottom out" the contact assembly in the socket.

You can then use any number of connectors to crimp onto the wires of your new contacts, and to the mating end of the new metal-sheathed cable that follows along your frame to the headlight and brake switches.  Possibly you won't find an exact replacement for the one that's on there now, but surely you can find something that serves the purpose and looks authentic to the era.

                   

(All of the above was taken from the Y 'n' Z's website.)

By the way, before you're through make sure to set up a proper ground for the socket, possibly soldering a short length of wire to the socket itself and then firmly attaching the wire to a known ground point in the light housing or down under the car (to the frame, maybe).  Replacing the wiring to the switch and battery is only half the the problem.  You must have a good ground to make the circuit a strong one.  You may also want to look for an old flashlight reflector that will fit around the socket (before you insert the bulb) and will concentrate the light out through the lens instead of allowing the light to bounce around within the housing.

When you go to work on your headlights, remember to ground the sockets there as well.

farmermike

Tom,

While waiting for my radiator to be repaired and other parts to get here to fix the overheating issue on my 35 T. , I have been looking over the wiring in my car also. Thank you for posting this as I will need to go through the same thing.

My headlights have only dim on the passenger side and nothing on the drivers. I will need to get the lens off of both sides. It looks to be quite the finesse job. Have you tackled that yet? There is a screw under the bucket that needs to be loosened I guess. Someone broke the screw off at some time on the drivers side. Can you just push the lens in and get it turned without loosening the screw?

The red lens on your tail light. Is it just red or does it say Terraplane? Mine is not the right one and I want to get the correct one for the car.

 

Thanks,

Mike Schlepp

Jon B

Here is what the owner's manual says about changing light bulbs:

Loosen the screws at the bottom of the lamp body. Push the bottom of the lens backward and downward until the top of the lens is clear of the top of the lamp body and lift out. Replace by reversing this operation.

The screw locks the lens in.  If all the hardware is still intact, within the headlight bucket, you will not be able to remove the lens with the screw still in place.  Possibly, however, the clip at the bottom -- which the screw engages -- may be rusted and can be broken by pushing inward on the glass at its bottom side.  However, don't push too hard or you may break the glass!

Assuming you cannot break the clip, you must drill out the screw.  You should definitely remove the headlight to do this, I believe there is a large nut holding the bolt which holds the bucket to the bracket.  (At least that is what happens in the 1937 models).  This nut would be the nut you loosen, in order to aim the headlight.  Of course, you will also have to disconnect the headlight wires at their connectors (probably in the engine compartment) to do this.

You will only have to drill the headlight lens retaining bolt out to a depth equal to the threaded part of the welded nut in the bucket.  Then you can simply poke through the hole and push the screw out of the clip within the bucket.

(If you're a member of the H-E-T's website, you can have access to the various bulletins and manuals that are now downloadable there.  Check the 1934-39 shop manual for info. on the headlights, there may be a diagram or explanation of the construction of the lights.)

You will probably want to send the reflectors out to be re-silvered, for optimum light.  (There's a place on the west coast which can actually plate them in polished aluminum and then seal the plating under a layer of thin glass, so it will never tarnish.)  And you may wish to purchase some of the new 6-volt halogen lamps for better brightness.  If not, keep an eye out for the old-style tungsten lamps that are rated 50-32 candlepower, or even 50-50 if you can find them.  You will want to ground the socket with a soldered wire that attaches to the frame somewhere.  You may even want to consider using a relay, to send the power directly to the lights instead of through miles of old wiring, and corroding switches.

If you need cork gaskets, these people make them for $14 a pair:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=27&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEcQFjAGOBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.maritimedragracing.com%2FHTMLobj-18158%2FHEADLAMPCORKGASKETS-B.pdf&ei=BKpnU5_XJMWkyATE3YCACQ&usg=AFQjCNHCYmXwTE7HlQfO0zkjt7HZ-7nwaA&bvm=bv.65788261,d.aWw

Or, go to a model train supply store and buy some of that cork "roadbed" in long strips, and slice it into thin strips which will then take a curve and fit into the little flange around your reflector.

farmermike

Jon,

Thank you the information. I am a member of the HET club and will check out their manuals.

Do you have a name for the company out here that can plate the reflectors?

 

Thanks.

Mike

35 Terraplane

Mike,
I've attached pictures of the tail assembly on my car.  The lens is plane without the Terraplane on it as I've seen a few times on Ebay.  I always thought that the car I have which is the Special G, the base model in 35 may have used a less expensive tail light assembly.  I don't know for sure if this is the case or if the assembly had been replaced at some point in the car's life.

I've also attached a PDF that I copied out of a Motors manual.  It Identified this as the assembly on the 35 Terraplane.  I've had the lens out of my head light to replace the bulbs.  As others have said in previous posts I place a old blanket under the head light when removing the lens, just in case Murphy tries to strike.   I bought the cork gaskets from a guy in MA who deals in the old lights.  Can't remember his name. The thickness and width was right on.  Like Jon said it's just a strip of cork. I still have a large piece of it.  I'll find it and post the dimensions.

Tom

Jon B

Farmermike, I don't recall where "out there" is.  Here are two plating possibilities:

Craig Riker of Toledo, Ohio, did a very good job of silver plating my reflectors, and the whole job including postage ran about $55.  This, however, was 10-15 years ago!  He ran a Nationwide Insurance agency, and I have a couple of numbers, so with luck one of them will work:

419-290-4442

419-537-1291

The "gold standard" is to have your reflectors done by Uvira, out in Oregon.  You must first have them nickle plated yourself, then send them out and they seal the plating under a thin layer of glass.  Unlike silverplating, the plating will never corrode and dull.  The whole process will cost you a great deal more than silver plating, though.  Here is my latest contact information on Uvira:

Attn: Mr. Bill Atwood

310 Pleasant Valley Road

Merlin, OR 97532-8871

(541) 474-5050

Jon B

Tom, the fellow in Massachusetts was likely Donald Axelrod.  He still sells complete headlights for the pre-sealed beam cars.  I don't know how many parts and accessory things he sells, though.

35 Terraplane

Jon,
Yes it was Donald Axelrod.  I looked through my paper work and found the receipt.  It was $10.00 for two strips.  I'll look for the left over piece tomorrow and post the dim's.
Tom

Ric West IN

Based on the pics posted, your tail light seems to be a replacement,"generic".
This was often done as the original brass housing tended to crack/fall apart.

To use the original (almost flat ) lense with the Terraplane script will have to locate an
original or reproduction housing.

"Ric"

35 Terraplane

Ric,
That sounds right.  Do you know if a tail light off a 35 Hudson would have the same housing? Of course with a different lens.
Mike,
I've attached pictures of the piece of cork strip for the head lights I have left over.  It measures 0.255 wide x 0.150 thick.  Not sure if that would be a nominal 1/4" X 3/16".  Send me a PM or email with your address and I'll mail you this piece for a template.  HETtjfxking@verizon.net drop the HET.
Tom

Ric West IN

You will need housing from 33-35 Terraplane. 1936 may work, not sure.

Ric West IN

Was thinking of Hudson coupes which use a different housing. Sedans may be the same. Will
dig through parts books tomorrow.
Ric

farmermike

Tom,

 

I ordered a set of cork seals from "Then and Now" before I saw your post. Thank you for for your offer to send me your cork strip to copy.

I have been trying to get the lenses out of the buckets on my 35. I can even push the lens in and spin it around in the bucket but I just cannot seem to get it pushed down and backward far enough for the top of the lens get past the bucket. I have sprayed WD-40 around the lens and bucket to loosen up some of the rust. It is slowly getting better, I just am trying to not get to aggressive and break the glass.

Mike

35 Terraplane

Mike,
As Jon had noted in his post you'll have to get the broken screw in the bottom of the head light bucket removed.  When I've removed my lens I tip the lens down in toward the bottom then lift up slightly and it comes right out.  The inner reflector is spring loaded.  The broken off screw must be restricting the inward movement at the bottom.  The lens are different dimensions top to bottom and side to side, not round.  
Tom

farmermike

Tom,

I have been working on the RH bucket as that one does not have a broken off screw. In fact I removed the screw entirely. My thought was to get the lens off of the "good" bucket so I can see what is inside, and then pull the LH one off of the car and drill out the broken screw.

I will try your suggestion.

 

Mike

35 Terraplane

Mike,
As I remember it the first time I took the lens out, the lens was stuck to the cork gasket making it a little difficult to get them out.  Pieces of the cork came out stuck one the lens. 
Tom

farmermike

Tom,

Success! I got the lenses out without breaking them. Your idea of lifting up on the bottom of the lens after it was pushed in worked. Thank you for that heads up. The cork seals were hard as a rock and stuck to the relectors. The LH bucket had two inches of rust and even had broken glass from a past lens in the bottom of it. One of the clips that holds the reflector is broken and I will need to find another one.

The back of the lenses have the date Dec., 1934 on them. I also took a photo of the wiring "junction" where the wires split to each bucket. It looks like I will be doing some rewiring on my 35 also. 

Mike

 

Lee ODell

Tom,

Thanks for photos. Looks like a beautiful car, would like to see more.

Lee O'Dell

35 Terraplane

Thought I'd post updated pictures of the tail light housing knowing it's not an actual Terraplane unit but it's still interesting. I gently cut the outer cloth on the wire and found the inner rubber insulation fell out like powder. Cut it back far enough that I could push the wire toward the inside of the bulb socket.  The wire has a copper button crimped onto it.  The sleeve the wire passes through is swaged on both ends so the end inside the bulb socket retains the spring and on the outside to captivate it in the bulb socket.  The wire itself looks to be in very good condition, silver in color which makes me think it's tinned copper.  Pulling on the wire compresses the spring. 

The housing is marked DUOLAMP-B.  Did a little search and found several DUOLAMP models that were used on Ford Model A's.

Anyway just thought I'd put it out there.
Tom

farmermike

Tom,

When you replaced the corks in your lenses, did you seal them or soak them in oil to keep them from drying out, or did you just use them as is? I have a liquid silicone spray that I use on various items around the farm to lubricate them and was wondering if it might help.  It drys tack free so it does not attract dirt.

 

Mike

35 Terraplane

Mike,
I put the new cork in dry.  When I did it I was new to the forum and the Terraplane and didn't think to ask that question.  I looked in a Motors manual and it points out to put the joint in the gasket at the bottom leaving a slight gap between the ends for drainage. If anyone has suggestions on the lubrication or treating the cork I'd like to know.
Tom

Jon B

As noted previously, I just bought some cork "roadbed" strips at a model train supply, maybe1/8" to 3/16" thick, then used a straightedge and mat knife to cut them in straight strips to fit in the channel around the reflector.  They took the radius fine.  Stuffed them in, no adhesive, no oil, no silicone spray, no nuttin'.  The joint was at the bottom so moisture could drain.  That was maybe 10-15 years ago, they're still fine.

farmermike

Jon,

Thanks for information. After having such a time with the LH headlight being such a bugger getting apart and being so rusted together I am probably over thinking the problem.

Tom,

Where did you get your Motors manual for your 35T? Are they still available?

Mike

Jon B

Farmer:

Nothing against the Motors manuals, but were you aware that the 1934-37 Hudson factory shop manual is downloadable (or just readable) at the H-E-T website?  (Of course, you have to be registered there, but it's not hard to do, and you already may have registered.)

35 Terraplane

Mike,
When I got the car my father-in-law had the Motors manual along with a 1934-37 shop manual Jon mentioned.  I've found another Motors manual at a car show for $5.00 and yet another on Ebay I think for $10.00.  I like the different editions as the data is slightly different depending on the year of publication.  I realized that the PDF of the head light assembly I posted wasn't out of Motors but the Hudson Master Chassis parts book 1930-1939.  I also have a 1935 Hudson & Terraplane body parts book which has some very useful graphics in it.  Another handy book is the Hudson numerical parts interchangeability record to cross reference what parts fit what years.  Another good one is Dyke's Automobile Encyclopedia.  I guess I kind of a book worm and look at like you can never have enough reference data.  I looked on the HET club site Library that Alex Burr has complied and didn't see the 1935 Hudson & Terraplane body parts book.  May be I didn't look in the right place.  If your following this Alex let me know if that's one that's missing and I'll scan it and send it to you for posting.
Tom

Jon B

Tom, the H-E-T website has a 1935 Hudson and Terraplane body parts book, 40 pages, with illustrations.  You will see it listed under the "Manuals -- Old Site" subheading under the "Library" tab, at the top of the page.  But thanks for your offer (to scan).

The online library also has the Hudson Master Chassis parts book 1930-39 but it seems to be missing several pages.  If you get a chance, please take a look at it.  If yours has the missing pages, I'm sure Alex would be grateful for a scan of them.

I'm not sure the library has the numerical parts interchangeability record -- maybe you could go to the aforementioned Library page, and see -- if not, I'm sure Alex would be most pleased to have you scan it for us!