35 Terrplane Wiring
Starting to get back to installing the new wiring on the 35 Terraplane Special G. I had the new wiring made by Rhode Island wiring and it is very nice. I've attached some of the PDF's I made at the beginning. Of course I have questions. The gas gauge would work intermittently. Is there a way to bench test the unit in the instrument cluster and the sending unit on the gas tank.. I'd like to verify ther function before putting it back together. Any help that could be offered would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Tom
Comments
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Tom, since your gas gauge sending unit is pretty accessible, you can remove it and bench test it with the gauge. (The gauge system isn't polarity sensitive, so it doesn't matter which way you connect the power).
Connect a wire from the power source to one terminal of the gauge. Then run a wire from the other gauge terminal to the connection on the sending unit. Connect the other power supply wire to the metal structure of the sending unit. With 6v supplied, you should be able to move the sending unit float arm through its range of movement and see how the gauge reacts.
When you take the sending unit out, shake the float and listen for any sounds of fuel sloshing around in it. These old brass floats are prone to cracking, then fuel gets in and the float sinks.(You may find it's got a cork float instead).
The bad news is that there are no direct replacements for these KIng-Seely gauges and sending units. There's one company that repairs them, but it's quite expensive. You can replace a bad sending unit with the later (51 and later) resistance type unit, but takes a fair bit of experimentation to make it register accurately.
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Park, wouldn't the ideal way of testing, be to remove the old sender and gauge from the car, then bench test them together?
Assuming a suspected problem with the sender, is there a way to simulate a "working" sender by attaching some sort of rheostat to the power supply that runs the gauge, so that at "half power" the gauge should read half full, and full power it would read full? That way you could isolate the problem to the sender. Or isn't it that simple?
I understand that Hudson guys who sell the senders (which are actually Ford replacements, right?) actually pre-bend the arms so that the float will assume the correct level in a Hudson tank. But if you were to try this yourself, I assume it would entail a whole bunch of trial and error (i.e. filling the gas tank with a known quantity of gasoline, removing the sender, bending the arm, replacing sender, noting gauge level, removing sender again, re-bending arm.......etc....... )
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Jon, what you describe in 1st para. is precisely what I thought I was describing, except I didn't say whether the gauge should be on the bench. Doesn't make a difference, but it's certainly easier if the gauge is removed!
The gauge is pretty simple, so usually if you put 6v to it (or in the car, ground the sender wire and turn the ignition on), the gauge should swing over beyond full and stop at the peg. (The book cautions to avoid letting it stay on the peg very long). Anyway, if it swings pretty smoothly over to Full or beyond, it's probably good.
I've bought two of the replacement senders, from two different suppliers, and in both cases I had to do a fair bit of fiddling with the float arm to get reasonably accurate readings. One was fairly recent, so I well remember it took many trials, as you describe, to get it calibrated reasonably well.
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Park, Jon,
Is this the basic circuit? If it is I'll take the sending unit out of the tank. The battery is on the bench all the time on a tender and the instrument cluster with the gauge is out for now. Probably get a new gasket for the sending unit tank flange first. Anyway, does the circuit look right?
Thanks for the help
Tom
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You've got it.1
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Finally got back to the wiring. I removed the sending unit in the tank and tested it per my sketch. When I move the float arm there is no movement on the gauge. I can see the rod coming down from the top of the unit moving when I rotate the float arm and the cam +acts against it. The sending unit looks to be in rough shape and the float looks bad as well. Is there a way to test the dash gauge without the sending unit? Does anyone know of anyone who can repair these units?
Thanks
Tom
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Check with this company. They recently rebuilt a sending unit for me that works like new.
http://antiqueinstrument.com/
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Hello All,
Thought I'd post an update on the wiring project. It's moving along slowly as we've had two weddings and two graduations in the family this summer so the Terraplane is given short shrift to keep the bride happy.
Anyway, made one concession to modern driving and added two 6V LED stop lights as my car only has a single stop/tail light. I was always nervous about someone not seeing the stop light. Not sure folks know what hand signals mean these days. Lifted up the seat material and made two small notches in the wooden frame to accommodate the wires. The lights will be held in place on the back windows with little suction cups that came with the kit. Got the gas tank gauge sending unit rebuilt and tested it with the dash gauge, it worked. Ran the ground wire for the LED's to the seat mounting bolt on the top side and ran a ground wire from the gas tank gauge sending unit to the same bolt under the car. Had to use a longer bolt then the original. Prior to that tested ground from the threaded weld nut in the floor pan for the seat mount to the battery ground strap and got a very acceptable 0.1 ohm reading. Also tested ground from the rear tail / stop light socket to the ground strap and got a 0.2 ohm reading. My son in law, an instrumentation and controls engineer tells me anything below 1.0 ohm is good and anything below 0.5 ohm is excellent. Put the battery in and jumped to the brake light wire in the dash, pushed the pedal and its all good. Did the same for the tail light, success. Jumped the dash gas gauge and it registered. Ran the hot wire for the LED brake lights through the existing rubber plug that was in the trunk floor by drilling a small hole in it. It will be hidden by the panel board in the trunk after I reinstall it.
Flap wheeled the inside of the head light buckets as best I could. Wiped them down with acetone and sprayed them with Rustoleum primer and topped with gloss gray. Hoping this will make them last another 80 years. I didn't paint the lugs for the spring mounts that hold the reflectors in place hoping for a good ground but when I tested from the lug to the battery ground strap I got 3.6 ohms, not good.
I thought I'd read in a post that someone had added a ground wire from the bulb sockets for the head lights and parking lights to the chassis. I found an old bulb socket and tried soldering a wire to it but couldn't get the solder to stick. The old socket has chrome or nickel plating so I suspect that is the problem.
Now for a question. Is this the correct way to attach a ground wire to the head/parking lights? I was thinking the bulb sockets are copper or brass. Should I lightly grind off the plating in order to be able to solder a ground wire to them?
Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Tom
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Thanks Ken. I'll practice on the old one I have.0
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I have to make a correction. I misunderstood my son in law about the ohm readings for a good ground. Should have been 0.1 was good and 0.05 was excellent. He told be your looking for 0.0 but that is not realistic. He has a hi end Fluke multimeter were he can down to very low numbers. When I check the lead resistance on my Snap On unit I get 0.1. If I get 0.2 when checking a ground circuit the resistance in the circuit is 0.1 for the circuit after subtracting the 0.1 in the leads. He tells me that for automotive ground circuits 0.1 is very good.
Tom
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Hi All,
Getting to the last part of the wiring and have a little
issue. The new wire harness for the head lights thread through the
hollow bolt holding the head light bucket fine but there's always
something. I planned on running a ground wire to the chassis from the
head light socket but there isn't enough clearance to get a wire and the
harness through the bolt. Started with a piece of 14 gauge appliance
wire but no good. Tried a piece of 16 gauge appliance wire but no
good. Got a piece of 16 gauge automotive 50 AMP TXL with a thinner
jacket but that won't go either.
A couple of thought I had are:
Drill
the hollow bolt out slightly bigger. Not to crazy about this idea as I
afraid it will weaken the bolt and lead to disaster.
Strip the 16
gauge TXL enough to get it up from underneath leaving the insulation on
from were it exits the bolt to the ground point. Concern here the bare
wire against the steel bolt and galvanic corrosion. Looked up the
anodic index between the two and its 0.50 which can be tolerated in
controlled environments of temperature and humidity. But living in
upstate New York I don't think I have any control over that. Not to
crazy about this idea either.
Asking Rhode Island Wiring if I sent
the head light harnesses back could they rebind the harness with the 16
gauge TXL. I'm thinking if it were inside the binding it would fit.
When I look up from underneath with a light above it appears that there
is enough room. The harness is sort of triangular shaped due to the
three wires. Thinking the extra 16 GA wire would round it up.
Use
wire pulling lube with the harness I have along with the 16 GA TXL.
Concern here is will the lube soak through the binding and get at the
cloth jacket on the wires.
Ask everyone if there is another way to do it that I'm missing.
Maybe I over think this stuff but for me that's half the fun.
Anyway, any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
After I hit the post button saw I had added this to the wrong topic.Thought I'd add it here as well.
Tom0 -
Tom, from the photos it looks like the jacket around the wires is metal. Is that so? If so, could that not become your ground wire? Somehow (by clamping with a metal ring?) you could connect a short length of wire to it, then solder the other end to the headlight sockets (as I did on my '37). Chances are that your ground wire won't have to bear the full amperage anyway; the standard hardware will conduct the current back to the battery through various metal components, as it was designed to do. Your additional wire will take care of any deficit.
The metal jacket can then be grounded to the frame somewhere along its length, with a clip that contacts the jacket and is then screwed to the frame.
By the way, you are aware (are you not?) that quartz halogen lamps are now made to fit the flange-type socket which I assume your car has....right? This should give you a great improvement in night driving. Of course, re-silvering your headlight reflectors will help as well, and sneaking a headlight relay (behind the dash where no one will see it) will be a great boon to brightness, as well as removing the amperage from all those bad old switches in your car.
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Jon,
The wire harness does have a metal jacket of thin wrapped metal. To install a relay does it have to be specifically for a positive ground setup? Are there club members who sell the quartz lamps/
Tom
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As to the relay: I just bought an old NOS one for 6 volts, it's worked fine in my positive ground Hudson.
As to the Q/H lamp, here is the place that makes them, in Australia:
http://www.classicandvintagebulbs.com/page3.html
and here is the place in America that sells them:
http://www.lbcarco.com/
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Jon,
^ volt relay like this one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Universal-6-volt-Headlight-Relay-fits-Customs-Hot-Rat-Rods-USA-Made-/351465708025?hash=item51d4fd19f9&vxp=mtr
Tom
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Yeah, though mine seemed a lot larger. I guess they've learned to condense the stuff into a smaller package!
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Hi all.
With the dash apart I got to thinking about the speedometer cable and lubricating it. I see NAPA has graphite cable lube. Is the practice to remove the cable from the metal sheath and apply the graphite to the cable. What would be used to clean the cable and sheath?
Regards,
Tom0 -
Hello Everyone,
Have a question about the oil check valve. When I check resistance between the battery ground strap and the electrical connection stud on the oil check valve I'm getting 1.3 - 1.4 ohms. Seams high for that short of a distance. When I touch the cap nut as I'm pointing to in the picture I'm getting 0.1 ohms. Touched the body of the valve and engine block next to the valve and I'm getting 0.1 ohms there as well. The parts list book calls for a "Pressure indicator contact pin gasket".
I looked in the procedure manual & owners manual but neither shows a sectional drawing of the valve.
Has anyone had one of these apart? Does anyone have a section drawing of it?
Wanted to know if the the electrical contacts are sealed off from the oil side.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Tom
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Hi, Tom.
Let's stop for a moment and ask: what is the problem that caused you to check this, to begin with? Is it that the oil light isn't coming on when you turn on the ignition? Does it remain on after the engine's running? Or is it leaking?
One other question? Do you have ground connections both to your body, and to the engine? There should be two ground straps )one usually from the clutch housing to the frame as well as one from the battery to the engine or frame, thus grounding all parts of the engine / chassis).
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Hi Jon,
As I rewired the car I checked ground at each device. Cleaned all ground points or in the case of the gas tank gauge and head light buckets added ground wires. Wasn't satisfied until each ground was reading 0.1 ohms.
My son-in -law tells me to touch the meter leads together with the meter set to ohms and what ever reading you get is the resistance in the leads. When I do this I get 0.1 ohms. When checking ground between two points on the car if you get 0.1 ohms he says you have an excellent ground circuit.
Before I started the rewire the oil light would light when I turned the key on and go out shortly after the engine started as it should. I just want the resistance to ground to be the best it can be for the entire system. I checked ground between the engine in several places and at the bolt where the ground strap goes between the engine and chassis. I got reading of 0.1 ohms so I know the engine is grounded.
Just curious why the hi reading at the oil check valve.
Tom
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Tom,
The contacts are immersed in oil but it's of no consequence since all they handle is 6V at a very low current (just what the indicator bulb draws). Your resistance readings show reasonable figures considering how little it matters.
The original contact pin (at left in photo) is almost impossible to extract without destroying it and the Bakelite insulator, in fact, I had to take a "blue-tipped wrench" to it to burn out the Bakelite enough to free it. The gasket in question simply seals the insulator from passage of oil....I think there are two, one on each side of the insulator flange.
In this case, the contact pin was worn quite short but was still functional. I made a new one from brass and a new insulator. I'd need to find my info to say what the material was, but it was selected on the basis of hardness, machinability and dielectric strength. It's a soft enough plastic that I didn't need to worry about gaskets.
The other components in there are the plunger, spring, valve plunger pin, pin retainer and valve ball. Although Hudson calls it a "check valve" its primary function is simply to generate enough flow resistance in the rear oil line to lift the plunger off of the contact pin, thus breaking the ground circuit, extinguishing the dash light. The check-valve aspect of it is to prevent the plunger from falling quickly back onto the contact pin. Without that feature the light would flash with every pump pulse.
If you are looking in the '34 to '39 MPM, it doesn't show the valve but it is shown in cross section in later MPMs. The valve is the same one that was used from the beginning of time 'til the last 8 was made in '52.
Frank
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Thanks Frank,
Curious about what prompted you to rebuild the check valve. I take it the contact pin was mechanically worn short from years of use. I wouldn't think it could be from arcing.
Tom
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Tom,
It was just terribly ugly and the pin was worn a little shorter than what I needed to be happy. There is certainly no arcing issue on these contacts. As you said, it's just wear.........odd, since the pin doesn't contact the plunger except when the engine isn't running or in cases where the oil flow is insufficient to hold the plunger off of the pin. You may see this effect at hot idle and isn't anything to worry about. It will appear much like a healthy heartbeat at about 50 flashes per minute as the plunger is pushed up but falls back onto the pin before the next pulse.
Check your PMs please.
Frank
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Frank, this normally occurs if the check ball is left out, allowing the plunger to oscillate up and down. Normally with the ball in place there is enough residual pressure between strokes to keep the plunger and contact up away from the pin. When fast running there is enough pressure in the line to keep the contact open.Geoff0
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Geoff,
If the ball is omitted, I'd predict that it would flash really often. Quite an annoyance to the passenger in cars with the light in the glove box door. There is a bleed-off passage built into the check valve (the valve pin in the bottom of the plunger) that allows the plunger to fall somewhat between strokes, but at very low rpms it may fall fast enough to cause a low frequency flash. I'm certain that all of my balls are in place where they belong and I can get an occasional repeating flash if I pull the rpms down, such as a start from standstill without application of throttle. My Dad's ol' '42 C-6 did it at hot idle. The oil is still flowing as it should but at a volume low enough to make the light flash. This will vary from car to car with slight differences in plunger-spring tension.
F
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Hello all, A few more questions. Is this the correct tail light for my 35 Terraplane? And how do you remove the lens? Thanks Tom0
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If this is anything like the head / taillights on the late thirties Hudson products, you push in on either the top of the bottom of the lens. It will "give" and you will be able to push it inward and downwards (or upwards, depending upon where you're pushing).
As the one side goes down and inward, the other side moves up and outward, enough for you to grab the loose edge and "help" the whole lens out. (The sides of the lens are actually narrower than the housing opening; it's the top and bottom of the lens that actually do the "holding".)
CAUTION: lay towels, pillows and mattresses all around underneath the lens before removing. It WILL slip out of your hand and will shatter on some object, sure as shootin', if you do not.
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I believe the picture shows a 1936 lens which is slightly domed. 33-35 lens is almost flat. Housing is the same for 33-36."Ric"0
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