My Twin-H Saga (with pics!)

tbeilke

Very nice work by a talented machinist>

iceblade10

Got the intake manifold looking all purty.  Give a man a can of oven cleaner and a wire brush, and he can conquer the world.  Fresh balance tube gaskets and new grade 8 bolts. 

SuperDave

 Iceblade. How is your conversion going? 

 I have been busy.  Dave Sollen stopped by today with a nice intake for me.. Hudson friends are FRIENDS!..  I replaced the core plugs although I am using a stainless steel blocker plate. I was afraid someone in the future would decide to use the carb heat and the plugs were ready to give up. Heck.. I hope I am not the last owner of this Clabbered up mess after I am gone.

I did start the disassembly and got as far as hanging the manifolds on the studs. Damn those things get heavier and heavier the older I get. I had a devil of a time getting the twin exhaust adapter to clear the grease fitting on the right upper control arm. Ended up jacking the engine up with the right front motor mount unbolted. I am looking forward to getting the exhaust system hooked up. Having fun.. I keep saying..

iceblade10

I am making slow progress.  I called Daytona about rebuilding my carbs.  I should be mailing them out sometime this week.  The good news is that they'll accept my extra mis-matched carbs for additional credit, so that should help defray some of the cost.

In the meantime, after a lot of deliberation, I decided to repaint my air cleaners.  They are '55 cleaners, and were a different shade of red than my '54's engine.  So, now they'll match.  I like to keep things original when I can, but it just didn't make sense to have old rusty air cleaners on a shiny restored car.  I probably should have just taken them to a body shop, but decided to try to do the work myself.  The old paint came of very easily with a wire brush and some paint stripper.  However, now I see clearly how much rust there is.  The cleaners are overall in good shape, and most of the metal is gorgeous.  But I really want to clean up all the pitting.  I'm not sure exactly how to tackle this.  My plan right now is to clean all the rust off, then spray some special anti-rust primer I bought.  I'd imagine that all the pitting will still be visible, so I'll apply some spot putty and fill in the holes and sand, before painting.  I've read that if you apply bondo or whatever BEFORE the primer, there's a good chance the rust will continue to form, and bubble up the paint.  I've never done any kind of automotive painting before, so this is all new to me...

I've also had to do minor repairs to the ring that attaches the air cleaner to the carb.

My intake manifold is all ready to go, but I still need to work on the exhaust manifold.  The exhaust flange studs and nuts are fused together from rust.  I wanted to change out the gasket, so my dad's friend is going to remove that mess and put in new studs for me.  I figure it's better to do that while everything is OFF the car, in case there are problems down the line...

Kdancy

It used to be normal practice to apply body filler straight to bare metal. Aftermarket body and paint manufactures have for some time now recommended applying primer first in order to seal the bare metal from moisture. Body filler is somewhat porous and moisture can work down to the bare metal if not sealed. That is the reason body filler should not be left unsealed. I prefer epoxy primers for all my seal work. I use 2k urethane primers for all block work then finish with epoxy primer/sealer then paint. I quit using lacquer spot putty years ago. It doesnt have the durability of modern 2 part fillers.

iceblade10

Kdancy, thanks for the tips.  I'll have to look into that.  I'll post a better pic of the air cleaner later today, so you can see all the pitting I'm looking forward to dealing with!

Dave, are you doing all the work by yourself?  I imagine it would be quite a chore to install those heavy manifolds by yourself...  I plan on conscripting my dad to help me.

I was reading one of the manuals that someone posted for the Twin H conversion, and there was a lot of stuff that seemed puzzling to me at first, such as draining the coolant.  Did you do that?  I'm not sure if this is simply to prevent the chance of leaks from messing around with all the bolts/studs.  I know I'll definitely need to take out a bunch of bolts from the head to install the linkage, etc...

iceblade10

Here's the worst of the pitting.  I suppose if it shows through the paint, at least I'll know where to place the decals!

Kdancy

Here is an excellent urethane primer that is also cost effective. Tamco 5311 black direct to rust. 
http://www.tamcopaint.com/hp5310-black-metal-pr.html
Here is the epoxy primer i use everyday
http://www.tamcopaint.com/tadtadtoanep.html

I also use their blocking primers and clears, the best clears I've used. 

50ClubCoupe

You may also want to consider using a phosphoric acid dip to get rid of the rust entirely and etch the surface.  I use Prep & Etch (concrete cleaner from Home Depot) or Ospho (available at Ace) and they do wonders.  I used the Prep & Etch numerous times for cleaning and etching the insides of old motorcycle tanks when I had my shop.  It's cheap enough that you can fill a 5 gallon bucket or even a cheap storage container with solution and submerse parts. The dilution rate is pretty wide too.....even a 1:1 worked well.  I found it was best to heat the solution to 100-120* but it works fine at room temperature too, just takes a little longer.  The end result is that you'll have a nicely etched surface that you can then cover with epoxy primer and then use a high-build primer on top of that in order to sand and smooth any imperfections due to the pitting. If you choose to use the phosphoric acid dips it would be a good idea to do an extended dip in a neutralizing solution (washing soda and distilled water) and then hang the parts for a couple of days to make sure everything is dried out.

Kdancy

Most epoxy primers do not need any sort of etch primers applied first, actually the etch primer will create adhesion issues with some epoxy primers so you need to consult manufacturer if you insist on using etch primer. The Tamco products I posted above are applied directly to metal, you only need to scratch up the surface with some 180gt paper. Applying etch will not gain you anything as the primers above have tenacious gripping ability. I quit using etch primers years ago when I started using epoxy primers and the 5311. Another product I occasionally use in areas I want to hold off priming until body work is done is Picklex20, an excellent metal prep wash for rust and was actually developed to increase weld strength.
Of course the best surface is a totally cleaned/blasted surface, I have used walnut shell under low pressure to blast the Twin H cleaners. The metal is very thin so you need to be careful.
Another quick note about etch primer ----do Not apply body filler right on top!

Kdancy

Here are a set of 55-56 and 53 Twin H cleaners we recently restored. The 53 set was in worse condition than the ones you have. The bottom mount holes were busted off and someone had tried to patch them, we had to cut the whole area out and repair properly. They were also beaten up badly.

iceblade10

Wow, those look great!  Makes me want to just ship you mine... LOL.

Overall, the ones I have are in very good shape... no major damage other than the pitting.  

SuperDave

iceblade10 , If you think it's a "job" wait until you have to fabricate all the fuel lines!  Unless you have them already. In my case, the A/C compressor required re-routing the fuel lines at #1 carb. Also I am using an AMC single action fuel pump which required a new fuel line. Then to top it off, the Choke tubes I bought on Ebay, turned out to be what I think are 202 Jet Twin H. After I cleaned them up and replaced the insulation, I found that They both are too short. Had to fab a couple of those

Replacing the throttle linkage and installing the Filter brackets looks like about 7 or 8 head bolts will have to be removed and replaced requiring coolant draining.

I used 55 Air cleaners and saved my original stepdown filters to save them for someone that wants to be correct. Both sets would have to be repaired anyway,  but not as bad as Kerry's.

Still having fun.

iceblade10

I'll definitely have to fabricate the fuel lines to link the carbs together, and the balance tube, etc.  Never done anything like that before (just like everything else, LOL), but think it might be fun.  I plan on getting that cunifer tubing that people seem to like, because it's supposedly easy to work with.  Hopefully my dad or his friends have some shaping/flaring tools I can borrow, because it would be wasteful to buy them just for this one job.  Plan B would be a cheapo set from Harbor Freight.

Fortunately, I don't have A/C, power steering, or any of that stuff to get in the way..

Thank God someone mentioned the Twin-H installation guide in the manuals, because if I didn't see that part about draining the coolant, I NEVER would have thought of it, with potentially disastrous results...  While some of the stuff in the guide seems weird (they want you to put the manifolds on with the carbs already attached), I should read it closely to make sure I don't mess anything else up.

Dorman makes some universal choke stoke kits that are supposed to work.  These are the 2 I have in my notes that might work.  I haven't bought them or tried them yet, though.  I guess you toss the cylindrical part (stove?) and only need the fitting, tube, and insulation:

http://www.dormanproducts.com/itemdetail.aspx?ProductID=18000&SEName=55111

http://www.dormanproducts.com/itemdetail.aspx?ProductID=649&SEName=03840

iceblade10

What makes 55111 better to use?  I see it comes with more fittings, but I'd assume you only need one...  Is it a better length or something?

iceblade10

So, I sanded the heck out of the rustier of the air cleaners, to the point where it was pretty smooth.  It seems like the pitting wasn't actually as bad as I thought.  I sprayed it with some anti-rust primer, and it looks like I won't need to mess with any fillers.  My car is not a #1 Concours car, so I think the end result will be more than acceptable.  If not, I can always get it restored by a body shop somewhere down the line.

iceblade10

Just got my pair of Carter WA-1 2113s back from Daytona Parts. They don't do the gold-colored plating anymore, but that's fine by me! I prefer silver...

SuperDave

I recently checked around the internet to find the original brass tags that Carter used to stamp the model number and such. Those darned things are selling for what we used to pay for a whole carburetor!  Glad I'm not building for AACA judging!

Daytona told me that the Bakelite choke covers are getting rare.. really?

I went through several in my junk box before I found a pair that had the same coil spring, although the covers had the same model number. If they are mismatched the chokes may move at a different rate.

50C8DAN

SuperDave I think there is a business potential looking at you right there!

iceblade10

Slow but steady progress...

iceblade10

Finally got my manifolds painted.  I used hi-temp red paint for the intake, and 2000 degree header paint on the exhaust, which I then cleared with hi-temp clear gloss.  I think it looks pretty cool!

RL Chilton

Looks great!  Don't forget, you need two of those gaskets, then the heat shield, then two more gaskets.  

DJK

About 1971 Kelly Hinegardner & Dave List helped me install a Twin-H on my '54 Borg Warner.  I recall the only mod was to the bell crank so the tranny and carbs were in sync. If you look close you can see where it was re-welded. The second one shows the layout. Missing the head bolt brackets for the filters.  I always hated that oil cap.

iceblade10

Thanks for the pics DJK.  I haven't played around with the linkage yet, but I have a Hydramatic transmission - hopefully I won't need any modification!  I have one air filter canister built into the linkage, and the other I got from Lance.  They both seemed kind of bent, so I straightened them a bit, but who knows, maybe they'd actually fit better with the bends?  LOL...  I haven't tried yet.  It's still a bit too cold to work on the car yet, but once I install the manifolds, I'll be able to mock things up and make adjustments.

iceblade10

Does anyone have any info on the brackets that the return springs attach to on the carb mounting studs?  I just realized that they even exist, and I don't have them!  Is there a place to get those, or could I just rig one up?  

onerare39

Is this what you are needing? 

iceblade10

Yeeeees, Onerare... I guess I need 2, right?  DJK's picture looks like he doesn't have one on his carb that's closer to the firewall, but I don't know if that's original, or due to necessity...

Do they still make those??

onerare39

Ice,

I don't know if they still make those but I'm sure that someone here on the forum will be able to supply them for you.

John

RichardD

How does the engine 'breathe' with the cap on the oil fill?  I use  K&N filter there. But might  be a filter that I don't recognize.

iceblade10

I haven't updated my progress in a while, so I thought I'd check in.

I've spent the past few weeks gathering up more of the parts I'd need to complete the conversion.  I still need the spring retention clips, but I made a cardboard mock-up, and my dad's friend should be making some steel ones for me.  I also still need most of the brass fittings and fuel lines, but I am saving this step for last.  I honestly know nothing about this, so have decided to procrastinate worrying about it...  One of my plans is to basically install everything else, then see if I can get someone knowledgeable to help.  The million different thread shapes and sizes is very daunting to me.

Since the weather has warmed up and it's not ice cold in my garage anymore, I've started disassembly of the current engine setup.  I drained the coolant and removed the single carb manifold with the help of my dad.  We had to remove the crankcase breather tube to reach the last few nuts, which were a pain, but ultimately we were successful.  The engine was rebuilt fairly recently before I took possession of the car, so all the nuts were nice and "fresh" still.  If they were older, rusted-on nuts, i'm sure I would have had a heck of a time!

While I had the manifolds out, I noticed that my oil sending unit wire was literally hanging on by just a few threads of copper, so I repaired that with a new connector.

The next step is to install the twin-h manifolds and reinstall the breather tube, then I can start playing around with the linkage.  I suspect that getting that all lined up and working properly will be the biggest headache...  Well, that, or maybe syncing up the carbs...