new rat rod project
Comments
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essexcoupe3131 wrote:As Lee said a pleasure to watch, it doesn't matter what project or whose car it, your quality continually shows through
Well thank you very much!:) I do try and do a good job on whatever some one brings to me. Whether it be an unseen floor pan or a new door skin. I think it's all important, and it's all a challenge.
I would consider selling my coupe for a 31 version of the boattail
what a cool ride stock or rodded
mike
Yes, yes! My first thought with this car was, "I want it!" But my Dad didn't want to sell it so I thought I'd make one. I'd have the original apart for patterns and make something similar. Not exactly as an original. I would not want some person in the future to try and pass a copy off as an original. Also, I think it would muddy the waters (so to speak), if there was a "fake" 27 boat tail. I don't want that. So I thought I would make the copy with some changes. Something that would make it difficult to confuse with an original but still honor the original look of a '27 boat tail. I haven't really decided what to change yet though. It needs to be something that would be difficult to redo. hmmm, I don't know yet. For now I'm just going to continue with the restoration of my Dad's real boat tail and copy some, not all, of the parts for use on the other car, for me. Which doesn't exist yet. And will be a hot rod of some kind.
Anyone have any ideas of what to change? I have a few but I don't want to influence anyone's ideas. Any thoughts??:)0 -
Hudson308 wrote:How about a raised horizontal character line or two on the sides, 3-4" below the top? They would strengthen the panels a bit, set it apart, and be evocative of the "rub strips" on a real boat.
Yes, that's the kind of thing I'd like to do. The raised character line would make it look like a series II. I might want to get a little more extreme then that. Or atleast make a raised line that is different than a series II. hmm
I was thinking maybe an aluminum body? Flush mount doors? Maybe section it? Or channel the body on the sides? A Du Val (spelling?) windshield? Track nose? How about under-slung? Dual side mounts? Or maybe no fenders at all?:rolleyes:hmmmm?
Looking for more ideas, and lots of them. 0 -
The cowl. 0
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bent metal wrote:Yes, that's the kind of thing I'd like to do. The raised character line would make it look like a series II. I might want to get a little more extreme then that. Or atleast make a raised line that is different than a series II. hmm
I was thinking maybe an aluminum body? Flush mount doors? Maybe section it? Or channel the body on the sides? A Du Val (spelling?) windshield? Track nose? How about under-slung? Dual side mounts? Or maybe no fenders at all?:rolleyes:hmmmm? Looking for more ideas, and lots of them.
You have alot of good ideas here to work with. I hesitate some on the track nose. I've seen them on several cars but somehow they never look quit right. They flow well on a race car but on a car they look like an add on. The front of a Hudson deserves more character.
With your eye and skill I believe you could pull that one off and make it look right. However you decide to do it, it will be an outstanding piece of art.
Looking forward to seeing it in the future. Lee0 -
Okay, the track nose is out. You hit the nail on the head when you said "just to see if you can do it". I've never made one of those, and I want to see if I can do it.
Actually I'm sure I could make one. Perhaps this is not the right car for that. I agree.
Most of the ideas I threw out there were just ideas. Nothing decided on at all. Actually, most cars I look at and think...hmm, that would look better if it was a little longer here, or shorter, or taller there. But this one I really haven't seen anything that jumps out at me that looks bad. Not yet. Maybe the only thing is that I'd like to see the body go down a little bit and maybe the fenders a little higher? I don't know?? Just an idea.
Check list:
1. No track nose.
Maybe list:
1. Lambo doors.
haha, just kidding.:D0 -
She's lookin' really good, bentmetal. I didn't really realize how small these cars were till that vintage pic got posted in this thread. Is yours the same size? Looks like a 3/4 car.
As far as ideas go, here's a few to muddy the waters:
1. I like the idea of "rub rails" down the length of the body, but I would go no more than about 2" from the top of the body. Have the rail itself about 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" wide.
2. Lengthen the body! It will look sleeker and more streamlined with some more length, particularly longer doors, which will make access much easier. Don't know without looking it up, but what is the wheelbase on these cars? I think you should shoot for the 106" to 110" length.
3. Speaking of sleeker, the back deck always looks better when the rear point really tapers down towards that bottom panel and the "sides" of the rear of the car aren't as tall. Something to think about.
4. As far as the front, have you thought about maybe incorporating a '36-'37 style Hudson or Terraplane grille, but shortened? Shoot the style into the '30's era as opposed to the '20's era. Just a thought, I know how you like the '20's style racers.
5. Duvall windshield is a no-brainer, but needs a soft top that is removeable. A nice and short Duvall-style would be best. 10-12" would keep the Hudson theme going. Speaking of that, if you end up making one, I want one, too.
6. No spare on the rear!
7. Fuel tank inside the "tail". Clean look for the rear of the car. A rolled rear pan or maybe even vintage bumpers would be a nice touch.
8. Suicide doors that aren't just square, need some shape to the corners, particularly at the rear.
9. What about peaked front fenders? Pontoon-style? Challenge for the metal-master who knows it all.;)
Well, food for thought, anyway . . .0 -
Such talent!!
Since we are dreaming... a fat fendered, channeled, 308 powered boattail would look great in my garage!
But then again, any boattail would.
Terry0 -
if it were me and I had any possibility of being able to do it...I would build a perfect replica, only about 25% larger than the original, that is selfish because I am fachubby as my kids call it! lol0
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Its a boat-tail - make it into a amphibious vehicle. There wouldnt be another one like it 0
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I was looking at this web site last night that listed mostly pre-1930 cars.
List of defunct United States automobile manufacturers
On the right side of the page, as you scroll down, are a few car pictures. One that caught my eye that seems to go along with some of your suggestions , is a low body/high fenders, 1913 American Underslung.
There must be a couple of hundred, or more, cars listed. Unfortunately not all the names have a picture posted with it.
This site might be helpful, seeing the different styles.
Lee0 -
As far as boat-tails go, I've always been partial to the Auburn Speedsters, hence my suggestions.
The Kaiser-Darrin sliding doors would be a pretty neat option! I always liked those cars and wondered why more hot-rodders didn't try to emulate that unique aspect. Tracks would certainly be trickier than butt hinges, but hey, that's part of the challenge. . . . neat cars, though. There were only like 435 of them made, and they were terribly under-powered, although I never got to drive one. Have been fortunate to see 12 or 15 of them in my lifetime, probably (mostly at auctions).
Still partial to suicides, but interesting thought!0 -
I saw one of those last October at the Orphan Car Show, coolest doors I've ever seen! That would be trick, looking at the car one wonders how they ever got them fitted, but they did.0
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RL Chilton wrote:
Yes! That's what I was hoping for, ideas. I can't use them all but I knew you guys would think of things that I would not have. That's awesome!:)She's lookin' really good, bentmetal. I didn't really realize how small these cars were till that vintage pic got posted in this thread. Is yours the same size? Looks like a 3/4 car.
As far as ideas go, here's a few to muddy the waters:
1. I like the idea of "rub rails" down the length of the body, but I would go no more than about 2" from the top of the body. Have the rail itself about 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" wide. Hmm, wide body line? Hadn't thought of that. Sorta' like a '29? hmm. Maybe.
2. Lengthen the body! It will look sleeker and more streamlined with some more length, particularly longer doors, which will make access much easier. Don't know without looking it up, but what is the wheelbase on these cars? I think you should shoot for the 106" to 110" length.I think that would be a good idea too. Maybe make the door a little longer in the back and the part of the body behind the door a little shorter. So the overall length is the same, but the door is longer?
3. Speaking of sleeker, the back deck always looks better when the rear point really tapers down towards that bottom panel and the "sides" of the rear of the car aren't as tall. Something to think about.That would look good too. Perhaps make the body an inch or so lower and the fenders an inch or so taller? I'd also like to make the whole thing lower. At first I wanted it underslung. But then I wouldn't be able to use the rear pan. Which was too much work to just use as a wall hanger. I want to use it on the car.
4. As far as the front, have you thought about maybe incorporating a '36-'37 style Hudson or Terraplane grille, but shortened? Shoot the style into the '30's era as opposed to the '20's era. Just a thought, I know how you like the '20's style racers.Haha, your right! I do like the twenties style racers. But that's another project that's on my some day list. Actually so is the '36-7 grill. The praying mantis grill and the twenties racer are both good ideas for a different car. One thing I don't want to do is lose the primitive style of the original car. If you look at the pointed tail piece that I made you'll see that I made the rib detail "in" the panel. Instead of a bolt on piece like it was originally. The idea was to give it a more thirties look. But after it was made I didn't like it. I think it's going away too far from the original design. It's losing it's primitive charm. ...I think. I'd like to keep the changes subtle, maybe changes more in proportions rather than big design changes? ??I don't know.
5. Duvall windshield is a no-brainer, but needs a soft top that is removeable. A nice and short Duvall-style would be best. 10-12" would keep the Hudson theme going. Speaking of that, if you end up making one, I want one, too.Okay, sounds good. Once we get the ideas nailed down I think a drawing, nothing fancy, just a sketch should be done to see if it all looks good together. What year were the Duvall cars made? For some reason I think of them being an early thirties kind of thing.
6. No spare on the rear!Agreed! I want to see the tail, not the tire. Hmm, what about a bumper?
7. Fuel tank inside the "tail". Clean look for the rear of the car. A rolled rear pan or maybe even vintage bumpers would be a nice touch.Ha, your one step ahead of me with the bumper! If the tank was in the tail the filler would be in the center, up on top of the tail. Like a sprint car. But, the flat tail pan already has a cut out for the gas tank filler. If we went that route some thing else would need to go in that cut out. Have to think about that. One thing about this era is that they seem to be funtional more than looks oriented. So gas tank fillers would stick out, rather than shaved. You would see bolt and screws rather than hidden fasteners. I wouldn't want to lose too much of that "feel", or "charm", whatever you want to call it.
8. Suicide doors that aren't just square, need some shape to the corners, particularly at the rear.Do you mean a tilted straight line, or a curve? I know I would like to see them flush mount. I was thinking curved in the front and suicide?
9. What about peaked front fenders? Pontoon-style? Challenge for the metal-master who knows it all.;)I'd have to see a drawing of that. It might push the overall look too far into the thirties? Not sure.
Well, food for thought, anyway . . .
I never would of thought of the sliding doors either. Very interesting thought. If some thought was put into it, it could work on this project. I would want it to fit in with everything else though. That might be tough to do. I don't really want to modernize the car. I'm more thinking along the lines of "what would they have done" back then, if they could tweak it just a little bit?0 -
I thought I might put everything together a little bit and see how it looks.0
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Some things to ....um, look forward to? 0
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2. Lengthen the body! It will look sleeker and more streamlined with some more length, particularly longer doors, which will make access much easier. Don't know without looking it up, but what is the wheelbase on these cars? I think you should shoot for the 106" to 110" length.I think that would be a good idea too. Maybe make the door a little longer in the back and the part of the body behind the door a little shorter. So the overall length is the same, but the door is longer?
In my 28 Essex Coupe the hinge of the suicide door is just rear of the back of the seat so no opportunity to lengthen the door rearwards & the dash sets the front of the door.0 -
Bent, I met your Mom and Brother here yesterday at the HET National. I helped them get the canopy tent put up. Your Mom is very funny and said she taught you everything you know!
Jay0 -
jsrail wrote:Bent, I met your Mom and Brother here yesterday at the HET National. I helped them get the canopy tent put up. Your Mom is very funny and said she taught you everything you know!
Jay
Ha! Glad you got to meet them. If I may say so myself, they are very good people.
And,...my Mom taught me more than she realizes.:)0 -
Hudson308 wrote:
Yeah, if you move that black thing out of the way so I can see the boat tail. JUST KIDDING.:D I liked the Railton too. Wonder if they ever made a coupe? I've also thought the four piece hood would look good if it were curved. Just a low crown to take the "straight" out of it. Also shorten/lower the grill (as Russell said), and lean it back about two inches? Maybe? hmm, coupe with a fast back and split window. Right hand drive. :rolleyes: Ahh, maybe I should finish the one I'm on before I start the next one.:)
These are some great ideas to save for a some day project.:)0 -
If you went with Coachcraft, London, England (there were 4 or 5 shops building the Railton designed cars at that time) you could have a coupe, drop head coupe (or the roadster like we have here--by the way, this example was not built by Coachcraft--and the "folks in the know" want you to call them "Hudsons built in England" if they have the waterfall grill rather than the Railton grill") Coachcraft built the Saloon that is shown in this ad. There were no records of production styles or numbers built from the Coachcraft shop so it is hard to tell how many were built but only a handfull of the three main styles are known today. More of these "Drop head coupes" are availavle than any of the other styles.
Now that we have covered that, lets get back to the Boat-tail. I am excited to see more photos and I expect that it will be finished by Oklahoma city? If it is I can park my English "Saloon" next to it and perhaps add a bit of class to the photos folks take of the boattail?0 -
Some of the problem areas.
I still need to catch up the other side and fit the running boards, but the fender to splash apron fit is acceptable now. Before, it wasn't.:)0 -
Bent-
Sorry, I've been out of the loop for this month and just getting back to getting caught up on the forum.
I know we've e-mailed some on this subject, but thought I would post "for the record", as it were.
1. The Railton above? See, I like that. That grille looks right at home. Change that rear around to a BT, drop the low-curved doors, change a few proportions so it's not quite so Euro. I still think it's probably a little too tall for late-'20's to early-'30's. Possibly some more rake (lean back) might help as well. A sketch would go a long way.
2. What are those pieces on your table, above? Fender to splash, maybe?
3. Your Dad's BT is looking superb, by the way. I'll bet he's beside himself with glee on your progress. He has just got to be really proud of your talents. I know I am.
4. Doors: Yes, stretch the doors. One thing to remember is that people are much larger and taller in the 21st century than they were 80 years ago. Cars on doors were really quite small until the late 30's. Lengthening the doors adds style, grace and better proportions, as far as design goes. And, as far as function goes, easier ingress and egress is always a plus. Mercedes gull-wings pop into my mind. Have you ever got into one of those cars? Very difficult car to get in and out of. Suicides are not only cool, but extremely . . . sorry, EXTREMELY elegant in design (especially with a pretty lady involved). With lock-outs, they can be made safe, as well.
However, not just the doors need the lengthening, but the cockpit as well, and this could be done behind the doors. Longer legs need more room in the cockpit. Also, longer cars look better. These 106" wheelbases are "sporty", 110-112" wheelbases on these older cars are more "elegant". Depends on the look you are after.
5. Can't remember all the questions in your post, but one of them had to do with the rear bumper. Food for thought: Imagine the front bumper on a '33--'34 Ford. The outside is smooth, rolled at the ends, and has a distinctive dip or 'V' in the middle of the bumper. Chrome plated, of course. This 'V' would highliht the BT dramatically and effectively make it longer when viewed directly from the rear (essentially brings the point of the BT down further). Just like you would eliminate the rear spare, so as to not "hide" the lines of the BT, a bumper would not need to detract from the lines of the car, but add to it's beauty. Essentially the lines of the car would flow right down to the point of the BT.
6. Windshield: I could be way out in left field, here, but I don't think there was a Duvall Car, so to speak, at least not of that time period. I know of the windshields from the Hot Rodding world, and I always thought the windshield was named after it's designer, but that's just what I always grew up thinking. The windshield itself was just representative of the style used in the early to mid-'30's. Regardless, I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but one thing to keep in mind:
Hudsons of the '30's to the '50's had an ongoing theme in windshields, in that they all ready looked chopped from the factory, and the proportions were always "spot-on", IMO. Need to keep it short, glass size in the 7"-10" range, I think. Wind-wings would not be out of place, here, but would need to be decided upon when manufacturing the windshield proper.
Hudson people need to see the car and remark, "Wow! That's a cool-looking Hudson!" (or some such accoloade), not, "Wow! What manufacture of car is that?"
Anyway, I could ramble a lot more, but at least now I'm somewhat caught up.0 -
One more thing, do some searching in books or the internet and find some pics of '29, '30, and '31 DuPonts. They had some really great-looking BT's and many of the changes we're talking about are evident in those cars.0
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I went back and read the other comments.
Rounded doors: Was referring to the bottom corners of the door itself. Square doors placed it up to the beginning of the '30's or so. Rounded bottom corners are much prettier, and place the car well into the '30's. Again, depends on the time period your looking for. I, of course am partial to the rounded corners on the bottom of the doors, especially the front one on a suicide door. Also, really looks good when the front edge of the door rakes back to match the angle of the windshield, or at least compliment it. Also, makes the car appear to be moving when sitting still. Small thing, but big in appearance.0 -
All of those, great ideas!:)
The only thing I don't want to do is lose the '20s style. I think if I'm not careful the car will end up looking like a '31 boat tail, and not so much like a '27. That's something I noticed when I changed the belt line detail in the edge of the tail. It looked more thirties, put the car into a different era.0 -
If I were going to go more thirties, maybe something like one of these.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images43.fotki.com/v1381/photos/2/223020/6583961/AuburnSectionedRH07-vi.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D348867&usg=__V9jjmtdedGgolvRAMj1iIMDV_gw=&h=427&w=750&sz=70&hl=en&start=19&itbs=1&tbnid=RogsWl9Gite-QM:&tbnh=80&tbnw=141&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dduvall%2Bwindshield%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1
I like the black fast back coupe with the rib down the middle, maybe with a '36 grill?:D
But I'm starting to drift off subject, again.:)0 -
bent metal wrote:If I were going to go more thirties, maybe something like one of these.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images43.fotki.com/v1381/photos/2/223020/6583961/AuburnSectionedRH07-vi.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D348867&usg=__V9jjmtdedGgolvRAMj1iIMDV_gw=&h=427&w=750&sz=70&hl=en&start=19&itbs=1&tbnid=RogsWl9Gite-QM:&tbnh=80&tbnw=141&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dduvall%2Bwindshield%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1
I like the black fast back coupe with the rib down the middle, maybe with a '36 grill?:D
But I'm starting to drift off subject, again.:)
All you would have to add to these is 101 Dalmatians and Crewalla Diville
and you would have a complete set LoL:D
But seriously way cool
Mike0 -
Yes, I like those too. But very art deco thirties. Not what I'm going for in this car. My personal style (if I have one), I think would be a little more understated? I guess? I'm looking to simplify, or "clean-up"?? An already rather subdued car. ....My thinking is more along the lines, "I wonder what the original designers intended, if cost and production didn't matter?"
Who knows. Maybe this will never come to be. I hope it does, we shall see.:)
I suppose what I'd like to do is make a car that you see at a National and say " Oh a '27 Boat tail. " Then you tip your head and think, something looks different but you don't know what. And it just looks 'right'. But your not sure why. ....That's what I'd like to do.:)0 -
Flush mount, suicide doors with a rounded corner and edge that matches the windshield post angle. Sectioned a few inches. Maybe everything in front of the door should come down an extra inch? Needs wire wheels too.:)
Hey, is that a blue Durham in the background? haha:D0 -
I know this is a cartoonish looking drawing. But just to get an idea of what it would look like.
Same as the modified above, plus drop the hood area down about an inch or two and leave the windshield where it was. Add a cowl vent on the sides instead of on the top. Then put on wire wheels.
Don't want to change it so much that it looks like something other than a '27.:)0
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