new rat rod project

Lee ODell

I like the changes. I like the lowered body and the suicide doors with rounded corners. The side vents are a plus. Dad had a car with them. They did a good job cooling the legs. Moving the seating back will help improve leg room. Wire wheels I think is an improvement.



Can you do another picture with the cowl lowered the same as the body and lower the steering wheel just a tad and move the step plate back a hair to see a comparison. This might make the front end look longer even though the length hasn't changed.



You've made some good improvements on the looks of the car. Thanks for sharing your ideas.



Lee

ESSX28-1

I know you've seen this '27 E Boattail (the yellow & blue car after an ownership change). I think the original lines holdup very well! But I do like the suicide doors!!

bent metal

Lee, this is with only the front lowered/channeled. Nothing else.:)

Lee ODell

Thanks for showing the changes. Lee

bent metal

RL Chilton wrote:

Bent-



Sorry, I've been out of the loop for this month and just getting back to getting caught up on the forum.That's a good thing, your work must be busy.



I know we've e-mailed some on this subject, but thought I would post "for the record", as it were.Ok,:)



1. The Railton above? See, I like that. That grille looks right at home. Change that rear around to a BT, drop the low-curved doors, change a few proportions so it's not quite so Euro. I still think it's probably a little too tall for late-'20's to early-'30's. Possibly some more rake (lean back) might help as well. A sketch would go a long way.I agree, but not for this car. For what your talking about I'd like to see the grill just the way you said, no splash aprons, full fenders like 36ish but tighter on the wheels/smaller fenders. Then make it a fast back two door with real round door openings and a layed back windshield, split back window and an overall look of a Cross Fire, sorta.



2. What are those pieces on your table, above? Fender to splash, maybe?It's kind of a decorative piece that the hood latches down to. It transitions the hood to the fender.







4. Doors: Yes, stretch the doors. One thing to remember is that people are much larger and taller in the 21st century than they were 80 years ago. Cars on doors were really quite small until the late 30's. Lengthening the doors adds style, grace and better proportions, as far as design goes. And, as far as function goes, easier ingress and egress is always a plus. Mercedes gull-wings pop into my mind. Have you ever got into one of those cars? Very difficult car to get in and out of. Suicides are not only cool, but extremely . . . sorry, EXTREMELY elegant in design (especially with a pretty lady involved). With lock-outs, they can be made safe, as well.I like the suicide doors too. Class it up a bit (IMO), and if I extend into the cowl a bit and into the tail a little bit, the overall length wouldn't be changed.



However, not just the doors need the lengthening, but the cockpit as well, and this could be done behind the doors. Longer legs need more room in the cockpit. Also, longer cars look better. These 106" wheelbases are "sporty", 110-112" wheelbases on these older cars are more "elegant". Depends on the look you are after.I'm hoping that the lower car will look longer without having to change the wheel base. ...I've never sat in one of these with a proper seat installed. I don't know how much leg room it has. Maybe the seat could be altered, if it's a problem?



5. Can't remember all the questions in your post, but one of them had to do with the rear bumper. Food for thought: Imagine the front bumper on a '33--'34 Ford. The outside is smooth, rolled at the ends, and has a distinctive dip or 'V' in the middle of the bumper. Chrome plated, of course. This 'V' would highliht the BT dramatically and effectively make it longer when viewed directly from the rear (essentially brings the point of the BT down further). Just like you would eliminate the rear spare, so as to not "hide" the lines of the BT, a bumper would not need to detract from the lines of the car, but add to it's beauty. Essentially the lines of the car would flow right down to the point of the BT.You might have something here, it needs a bumper, or something to cover the otherwise exposed frame in the back. I'd like to see a drawing, but my first thought would be to make it straight and roll in on the ends. Like '34 Terraplane bumpers? Maybe front and back? Hmm? I'd need to see a couple of variations there.



6. Windshield: I could be way out in left field, here, but I don't think there was a Duvall Car, so to speak, at least not of that time period. I know of the windshields from the Hot Rodding world, and I always thought the windshield was named after it's designer, but that's just what I always grew up thinking. No idea?! I guess I just assumed it was a car from the eary thirties or so.The windshield itself was just representative of the style used in the early to mid-'30's. Regardless, I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but one thing to keep in mind:

Hudsons of the '30's to the '50's had an ongoing theme in windshields, in that they all ready looked chopped from the factory, and the proportions were always "spot-on", IMO. Need to keep it short, glass size in the 7"-10" range, I think. Wind-wings would not be out of place, here, but would need to be decided upon when manufacturing the windshield proper. You might be surprised to know this,.... the original windshield opening is only 7" to start with! haha When you see it in person it looks chopped. It's awesome!:D I hadn't thought about wind wings. But I did think about making roll up windows. So it would be a convertible instead of a roadster? But I just like the sound of saying "It's a roadster.":)



Hudson people need to see the car and remark, "Wow! That's a cool-looking Hudson!" (or some such accoloade), not, "Wow! What manufacture of car is that?" I agree. That's one reason why I don't want to totally change everything. I like the car as original, but for reasons I stated earlier, I need to tweak it. Beyond anything that could be reasonably reversed. ...I think. Besides, if it's going to be for me, I want to add some subtle design changes to it.



Anyway, I could ramble a lot more, but at least now I'm somewhat caught up.

Add more, add more! I think we're getting close to nailing down a plan. I'm taking in all suggestions and I'm going to go with whatever I feel is right. And saving some ideas in the back of my head, for later reference on a different car. I hope there are people out there that disagree with me a little bit and a few that think I'm totally screwing this up! Enough that it inspires them to build something that they think is the way things should be. If anyone out there is thinking this, Please post pictures! I'd love to learn, and maybe get inspired too.:)

bent metal

Okay, let me stop day dreaming about the car that doesn't exist yet. Back to the real one. This fender was rusted out from the inside. Looked like it was up-side down and filled with water for a while.

bent metal

Another view, I'm still not done with it. I wanted to get it back on the car to check fit and looks before I smooth out the welds all the way and rivet on the support bracket.



Looks OK.:)

[Deleted User]

I am amazed with this restoration! Here in Spain there are no jobs for these!

I continued posting, and probably many more we are waiting!

RL Chilton

Bent-

Got your PM. That fender on your Dad's BT looks mighty fine. If it was me doing it, I'd probably be smoothing it out and filling with lead. I wish my metal skills were as good as yours, or heck, half as good as yours! Such nice, clean work. Looks really good.

As far as the dream-machine BT goes, I think you're on the right track. Best to do some concept drawings, or have them done for you. Always good to work off of a plan, or at least a basic concept drawing. Gives you something to work towards.

bent metal

servat_hudson wrote:

I am amazed with this restoration!Thanks!:) We are trying to keep the car as original as we reasonably can. That's why I'm fixing some things that should probably be replaced, like this fender. Here in Spain there are no jobs for these!There ain't too many jobs for this "here" either. It's a tough way to make an easy living, let me tell ya'. Then try and do it out of a one car garage.:cool:



But I'm going to do it.....I hope.

I continued posting, and probably many more we are waiting!Good good! I'm glad you want to see it. I should see this car through to the end, or it's new beginning? If there is interest, I will continue to follow it's progress after it leaves my shop and continue to post pictures until it's complete.

If you guys are interested in seeing it.

bent metal

RL Chilton wrote:

Bent-



Got your PM. That fender on your Dad's BT looks mighty fine. If it was me doing it, I'd probably be smoothing it out and filling with lead. I wish my metal skills were as good as yours, or heck, half as good as yours! Such nice, clean work. Looks really good.Thanks Russell, I know you have high standards. So seriously, thanks for that.



As far as the dream-machine BT goes, I think you're on the right track. Best to do some concept drawings, or have them done for you. Always good to work off of a plan, or at least a basic concept drawing. Gives you something to work towards.

I agree with you, again.:D A plan set up ahead of time to keep a project on track is really important.

bent metal

Alright, this is a trim piece that was too far gone to fix. Had to make a new one.

onerare39

Thanks for taking the time to post the pictures.

You are truly a Master Metalcraftsman



John

bent metal

onerare39 wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to post the pictures.

You are truly a Master Metalcraftsman



John

Your very welcome!

Thanks for the kind words, just trying to make a living.:)



I'm not updating this project right now because it's more of what I've already posted, just the other side of the car for the most part. But hopefully in a couple of days I'll be looking at the doors. If this wasn't a restoration project I'd probably make new ones. It would be less work, I think. But it is a restoration so I'll probably try and fix the best two out of the three. Guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there.:)

lsfirth

Holy cow, as usual, you do amazing work Bent!!!! Thanks for sharing your artwork with us!! I've never been overly interested in boat tails, but I can't wait to see the final product....



Lee

essexcoupe3131

bent metal wrote:

Your very welcome!

Thanks for the kind words, just trying to make a living.:)



I'm not updating this project right now because it's more of what I've already posted, just the other side of the car for the most part. But hopefully in a couple of days I'll be looking at the doors. If this wasn't a restoration project I'd probably make new ones. It would be less work, I think. But it is a restoration so I'll probably try and fix the best two out of the three. Guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there.:)

Hi Perry,

If you keep talking about restoration we are going to have to bump you to the other side

surprised they haven't done that already as a lot of people are missing out on all the good stuff you are doing

its a pity Geoff Clark isn't over there he would be the man for all the mechanical stuff and would have that engine purring like a kitten

As always superb work



Mike

bent metal

essexcoupe3131 wrote:

Hi Perry,

If you keep talking about restoration we are going to have to bump you to the other side

surprised they haven't done that already as a lot of people are missing out on all the good stuff you are doing

its a pity Geoff Clark isn't over there he would be the man for all the mechanical stuff and would have that engine purring like a kitten

As always superb work



Mike

Funny you should mention that. My Dad and I were just talking about the engine for this car. He has been reluctant to start on the engine because he thinks they are gutless. He is considering using a different motor, maybe a four. I'm personally against this, I want to keep it all as original as possible. He did however bring up the comment that Mr. Clark and some others over in your part of the world seem to be able make them run pretty well. Strong enough to pull travel trailers etc. One of the biggest problems looks to be the intake. But that's cast into the block. Which pretty much limits what you can do to it.

So what's the secret to making one of these old sixes run good?:)

Browniepetersen

Might be worth the effort/expense to ship the engine down there to Geoff and have it rebuilt? Just a thought...

Geoff

Browniepetersen wrote:

Might be worth the effort/expense to ship the engine down there to Geoff and have it rebuilt? Just a thought...

I'd be happy to oblige, and test run it before shipping back. In my opinion this is such a rare car it would be a shame not to keep it absolutely original. As far as performance is concerned, the original engine was rated at 44 b.h.p., but with some tweaking to the camshaft, carburettor, and compression ratio, porting etc, it can be got up to around 60 b.h.p. With such a light body, this is perfectly adequate for everyday motoring. With raised h.p. and a higher geared back end this would be a great touring car. Incidentally, the 1929 boat-tails had an overdrive option. This entailed internal modification of the transmission, to give an overdrive ratio in what was normally the 2nd gear, and a roller bearing in the input shaft pocket in place of the usual bronze bushing. The shift pattern was then (in the terms of the original transmission), Low, top, 2nd, and the straight cut gears must have really sounded something at 60 m.p.h.! the ratio was 30%, and with the optional 5.1 rear end gears this gave an overall 3.6:1.

bent metal

Thanks for the tips. I'll pass on the information to my Dad. Is there anything specific to this engine to make it run good? What do you think needs the most improving?

stbryson

Hello bent metal,



I saw this auction posting today, and thought it would be of interest as a reference:



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-SPEEDABOUT-1928-HUDSON-ESSEX-BOATTAIL-SPEEDABOUT-LIKE-AUBURN-/290473891603?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item43a197d713



Take care,



Steve Bryson

ESSX28-1

Geoff C., N.Z. wrote:

Incidentally, the 1929 boat-tails had an overdrive option. This entailed internal modification of the transmission, to give an overdrive ratio in what was normally the 2nd gear, and a roller bearing in the input shaft pocket in place of the usual bronze bushing. The shift pattern was then (in the terms of the original transmission), Low, top, 2nd, and the straight cut gears must have really sounded something at 60 m.p.h.! the ratio was 30%, and with the optional 5.1 rear end gears this gave an overall 3.6:1.

Do you know of any of these O/D boxes around NZ? I'd be interested to know more vis a vis putting in an external O/D.

bent metal

Ok, so we're going through literature on these cars. Which there isn't much of, and my Dad is looking at color options that would be "correct" for the car. Guess what? There isn't any! Options, that is. They list one color option for a Series I, 1927 Speedabout. That's it. And to boot it's not a very pleasing color in my opinion. It's a bright green color. Malorney green, or something like that. Whatever it's called, it's a bright green.

So, is this information correct? I know I've seen a few "straw" colored Series I boat tails. But the book says that option wasn't until Series II.

If anyone has any more information please let me know, soon. The paint color on this project will be made in a week or two. Once it's done, it's done.



All this work to try and keep things original, we would like to keep to a factory color option. ....But man-o-man, that green is ugly.:cool:

rambos_ride

bent metal wrote:

Ok, so we're going through literature on these cars. Which there isn't much of, and my Dad is looking at color options that would be "correct" for the car. Guess what? There isn't any! Options, that is. They list one color option for a Series I, 1927 Speedabout. That's it. And to boot it's not a very pleasing color in my opinion. It's a bright green color. Malorney green, or something like that. Whatever it's called, it's a bright green.
So, is this information correct? I know I've seen a few "straw" colored Series I boat tails. But the book says that option wasn't until Series II.
If anyone has any more information please let me know, soon. The paint color on this project will be made in a week or two. Once it's done, it's done.

All this work to try and keep things original, we would like to keep to a factory color option. ....But man-o-man, that green is ugly.:cool:

Ahhh - the green will grow on you!

Originally that car was probably painted in nitrocellulose lacquer.. which is now unavailable to my knowledge. I know 30 years ago PPG sold nitrocellulose lacquer but it only came in 1 color - black.

I'd be painting that car with acyrilic lacquer - it would be more period correct and give a finish that looks like it belongs with the car...as opposed to the urethane enamels now that look like plastic.

Keep up the great work!

bent metal

I'm surprised that they only came in one color. I was hoping that some one would say the info I had was wrong and that you could order whatever color you wanted,...or something.



I guess it's true that all Hudsons were green at one time or another.:cool:

essexcoupe3131

Hi Bent metal, With what they are doing to our national film achives here (restoring very old film) maybe we could touch them up for any of the old film add some chemicals and you would just have to add some color and you would have the old Lacquer would be year perfect:rolleyes:

Mike

Ric West IN

Hi Perry,

Beautiful work on your Dad's boattail!

Regarding color choices for the boattail, I also was not looking foreward to "John Deere Green" with black fenders. While browsing the historical files at the public library I came across an article announcing the new Boat tail

roadster from Essex.

"The regulation color of the car's first shipped is a bright and attractive green. Special paint jobs are being asked for, however, by many purchasers, and in a number of college communities students have purchased the car with paint schemes to match the Varsity colors."

From: Sunday, April 3, 1927, Grand Rapids Herald

This may allow some freedom of color choice and still be considered "correct". Fred "Ric" Pinder

VicTor Z

Hello Pres. wood - boat tail at wave crest, Woodie Show: http://public.fotki.com/wackydave/car_shows/car-shows-2010/wavecrest-national-/091810-wavecrest-31-193.html

http://public.fotki.com/wackydave/car_shows/car-shows-2010/wavecrest-national-/091810-wavecrest-31-284.html

bent metal

VicTor, I'd like to see more of that car. Maybe from a couple of steps back so I could see the whole thing.:)

Browniepetersen

long time ago, I saw a Packard that had a wood boat tail. What a fun car. I was doing a woody wagon at the time and really got excited about the boat tail.